A(nother) Foam Question

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Craig311

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So I finally have my keezer going. One homebrew and one commercial on tap at the moment. Regulator PSI is set to 12 on both. Homebrew pours perfectly. The commercial keg fills a glass 2/3 of foam before pouring properly. If I continue to pour immediately after, all beers are fine. But if I wait just a half hour or so, I get the same 2/3 foam glass. The keg has been sitting cold for weeks, so that doesn't appear to be the issue.

I have 8ft liquid lines and just recently switched from a picnic faucet to a perlick for the commercial keg. Same problem... being sure I held the tap/faucet open all the way.

Any ideas? I feel like if I back the pressure down the beer will no longer be carbonated properly. If this makes any sense... It seems to "sputter" for a second on the first pour and shoot some air out.
 
Copbrew133 said:
Try a shorter line if possible, maybe 5-6 feet, seems to be the norm.
Click to expand...

??? I go with 10 ft. I keep my pressure at 12 psi. I actually cut one line shorter to 8 ft. and it foams just like the OP's does while the others are fine. Longer lines = less foam.

[Edit: I have perlicks also. beer line is cheap. Do it.]
 
The commercial keg is carbed to a level that's higher than corresponds with your current serving pressure and temperature. Sitting at the lower pressure, the excess gas wants to come out of solution, increasing the pressure in the headspace, and forming pockets of gas in the beer line. If you look at the high spots in the beer line after it's been sitting for a while and again just after a pour, you'll see what I mean. You can either increase the serving pressure to match the carbonation level in the keg, or take the gas off of the keg and vent it several times a day until the carbonation level comes down enough to match your serving pressure.

FWIW changing the line length one way or the other isn't going to help in this particular situation, but the only reason you'd ever want to shorten the line is if it were pouring painfully slowly. Longer lines on the other hand can often cure foaming issues.
 
Thanks for the replies!

JuanMoore - Yes, there was a pocket of gas about 2 inches long at the end of the beer line and bubbles in the line itself. I increased the pressure from 12 to 15 psi and it has now been sitting there for 3 days. The air pocket and bubbles were gone. Unfortunately, still foam city. I am serving at 38 degrees. Any other ideas?

I looked around and couldn't find how many vols of C02 are in the beer (Sam Summer, for my wife). Is it possible that this beer is has a carb level way above the standard 2.5 vols? Maybe my 8 feet of line just can't serve this beer at it's intended vols of C02 and temp? And, if so, it seems like taking it off the gas and venting until the dissolved C02 gets down to my intended serving pressure of 12 psi (based on my line length/temp) might be the way to go?

I guess the only follow up question to that is... How do I know when I've vented enough to get it down to 12? I'm guessing the answer is "crap shoot" but figured I'd ask.
 
Craig311 said:
Thanks for the replies!

JuanMoore - Yes, there was a pocket of gas about 2 inches long at the end of the beer line and bubbles in the line itself. I increased the pressure from 12 to 15 psi and it has now been sitting there for 3 days. The air pocket and bubbles were gone. Unfortunately, still foam city. I am serving at 38 degrees. Any other ideas?

I looked around and couldn't find how many vols of C02 are in the beer (Sam Summer, for my wife). Is it possible that this beer is has a carb level way above the standard 2.5 vols? Maybe my 8 feet of line just can't serve this beer at it's intended vols of C02 and temp? And, if so, it seems like taking it off the gas and venting until the dissolved C02 gets down to my intended serving pressure of 12 psi (based on my line length/temp) might be the way to go?

I guess the only follow up question to that is... How do I know when I've vented enough to get it down to 12? I'm guessing the answer is "crap shoot" but figured I'd ask.
Click to expand...

FWIW most commercial beer is carbed to between 2.4 and 2.8 vol. At 38° and 15 psi you're at ~2.85 vol, which appears to be pushing the limits of your 8' lines. Longer lines are a good idea IMO regardless of whether you want to serve this beer at 2.4 vol or 2.9 vol, but are an absolute must if you plan on serving beer at warmer temps or higher carb levels. As far as degassing the keg to 2.52 vol (12 psi at 38°), it's mostly trial and error. I will say that it takes venting the keg more times than most people think. Probably every time you think about it for a day or two. The good thing is that if you decarb it a little too much, a couple days at serving pressure will fix it.
 
Well, I thought I had it figured out... Need longer lines for this particular beer if I am going to serve it at the proper temp and carbonation. So, plan B... Degassing the keg until enough Co2 has come out of solution to accommodate my system. Err on the side of taking too much out and carbonate back up to 12 psi where my homebrew is pouring fine.

So, last night I bleed the keg and disconnect the gas. This morning I wake up and try the same. Pull the pin and nothing comes out. Come home from work today... Still nothing. Assuming the co2 can't be "stuck" in solution, what could be going on here?

3.4 - 3.8 vols for most commercial beers? Everything I was able to find has showed somewhere around 2.5 as the norm. Assuming you are right, I definitely need a separate and much longer beer line for whatever commercial keg I happen to put on tap.
 
Also, thank you all for taking the time to help. It's very much appreciated!
 
Craig311 said:
.... Assuming you are right, I definitely need a separate and much longer beer line for whatever commercial keg I happen to put on tap.
Click to expand...

Hi

The only downside to a "to long" beer line is that it pours a little slow. Not crazy slow, just not pint in 5 seconds fast. It's not an either / or thing. A 20' beer line is about $7 around here. Not a lot compared to the price of the rest of this stuff....

Bob
 
Craig311 said:
So, last night I bleed the keg and disconnect the gas. This morning I wake up and try the same. Pull the pin and nothing comes out. Come home from work today... Still nothing. Assuming the co2 can't be "stuck" in solution, what could be going on here?

3.4 - 3.8 vols for most commercial beers? Everything I was able to find has showed somewhere around 2.5 as the norm. Assuming you are right, I definitely need a separate and much longer beer line for whatever commercial keg I happen to put on tap.
Click to expand...

That's odd, not sure what's going on with your keg that it's not venting. And that was a typo, I meant 2.4-2.8 vol.
 
I'm baffled. Left it off the gas for 2 days and, aside from the initial pressure release, no more gas came out when I pulled the pin. So, I hooked it back up at 12 psi and let it sit for another couple of days. Again, foam city and bubbles in the line. Disconnected the gas again this morning, vented the co2, and pulled the pin after work. Nothing. I think I'm at the point now where the problem is outside of my understanding and have no idea what else to try.
 
Craig311 said:
I'm baffled. Left it off the gas for 2 days and, aside from the initial pressure release, no more gas came out when I pulled the pin. So, I hooked it back up at 12 psi and let it sit for another couple of days. Again, foam city and bubbles in the line. Disconnected the gas again this morning, vented the co2, and pulled the pin after work. Nothing. I think I'm at the point now where the problem is outside of my understanding and have no idea what else to try.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I wonder if the gas check valve in the couple has a high cracking pressure, or got some beer in it causing it to stick or something. Have you tried hooking it back up and pouring it again?
 

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