My beer tastes crap :(

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cookmysock

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On my 30th grain batch and the latest really tastes like it has been strained through a rugby players sock who has had a bout of tinia.

Brew is -
3.2kg Munich 1
Hallaertau aroma added at 60mins, 15mins and 5mins over a 60 minute boil.
45 minute mash at 65 deg C
Wyeast 1728 Scottish Ale
OG = 1052
FG = 1012
AA% = 77%
Volume = 14 litres

I don't think I have had a problem with sanitation or infection (I posted the fermentation mess a few weeks ago and the consensus was no infection)

Fermentation went off with a blast and even though the fermenter was about 60% full (loads of headroom) I still had an overflow from very active yeast. When I cleaned up the mess on the lid it was much like the ectoplasm in Ghostbusters (without the colour). Fermented at 24-26 deg C for 2 weeks. A further 2 weeks in the bottle (no secondary fermentation)

The aroma and taste is almost soapy like and a bit sour. It is almost undrinkable and I am very disappointed in the results. :(

What has gone wrong, or should I just leave this batch to bottle cure for a long time to see if it improves?
 
cookmysock said:
On my 30th grain batch and the latest really tastes like it has been strained through a rugby players sock who has had a bout of tinia.

Brew is -
3.2kg Munich 1
Hallaertau aroma added at 60mins, 15mins and 5mins over a 60 minute boil.
45 minute mash at 65 deg C
Wyeast 1728 Scottish Ale
OG = 1052
FG = 1012
AA% = 77%
Volume = 14 litres

I don't think I have had a problem with sanitation or infection (I posted the fermentation mess a few weeks ago and the consensus was no infection)

Fermentation went off with a blast and even though the fermenter was about 60% full (loads of headroom) I still had an overflow from very active yeast. When I cleaned up the mess on the lid it was much like the ectoplasm in Ghostbusters (without the colour). Fermented at 24-26 deg C for 2 weeks. A further 2 weeks in the bottle (no secondary fermentation)

The aroma and taste is almost soapy like and a bit sour. It is almost undrinkable and I am very disappointed in the results. :(

What has gone wrong, or should I just leave this batch to bottle cure for a long time to see if it improves?
Click to expand...

It will probably improve with time. How long did you leave it before tasting?
 
i dont know about this yeast strain but 26 degree seems very high for fermentation..
 
Your description (Rugby players sock) sounds like you mean it has a sweaty, goat-like funkiness. It sounds to me like you got infected with Lactobacillus, which is very common and one of the main bugs we try so hard to get out. Interestingly it is the same bacteria that (along with a few others), on our bodies produces body odor. Of course it also produces sourdough bread, yogurt and many other fermented foods. It produces lactic acid giving your beer a twang and the nose could be described just as you do. It is also a major part of the flavor of Berliner Weiss.

I am very familiar with the aroma and flavor because I intentionally infect many of my beers looking for a bit of that (when it balances well with the style). I've never experienced the soapiness you described in an intentionally infected beer, but I have noticed it in wort where I grew lactobacillus in it to flavor a larger beer.

One way this could have happened, even if you are careful of sanitation is if raw grain is allowed to come into contact with your unfermented wort. Raw grain is covered with lacto. If you touched raw grain before touching something that went into the wort, that would do it too.

The only thing that makes me wonder if there might be another cause is your fermentation temperature, since lactobacillus prefer a temperature much higher (80's to 90's Fahrenheit). But if you had some point where your wort stood at room temperature or higher for an extended period of time, lacto could have grown in it.
 
Was XXXX Gold present during any of the brewing process (I mean did it exist in your house at all... I mean I've heard of XXXX contamination from a neighbor's house but it was an extreme case)?

I'm thinking some age might help you out. Why the short batch? 26 C does seem a bit high but I can't imagine the yeast producing such an off flavor from a higher temp. That being said, I've never used Scottish Ale yeast before. If I'm reading you right, you are at 7.7% ABV (seems high for your OG/FG) so you could easily kick the can along for a few months (sad days for the thirsty mob) and some low lagering temps might do you good too.

You mashed at 65C for 45 mins. Did you sparge? If so, what was your strike water temp? Your yield doesn't seem to indicate that you over sparged and your mash temp wouldn't have caused tannin yuck-poo and your blow out doesn't seem infectious... The only thing I can think is age...
 
copied - Cluckk - One way this could have happened, even if you are careful of sanitation is if raw grain is allowed to come into contact with your unfermented wort. Raw grain is covered with lacto. If you touched raw grain before touching something that went into the wort, that would do it too.

Did you crush your grains in the same buuilding that your wort was brewed in? If that happened perhaps the dust from the grains carried an infection. Grain dust is persistent, constantly reintroduced into the air with any disturbance.
 
26 C or 78 F is way too high for most yeast. I'm hoping that was your fermenting temp and not your ambient temp. It could have been much higher if the latter was the case.
 
A "soapy" flavor tends to be related to poor yeast health (the breaking down of the fatty acids into actual soap) and could be from pitching too warm and fermenting too warm.

A "sour" flavor is usually infection, but this can also come from a too-warm fermentation temperature and stressed yeast as well.

If it's "sweaty" or "goaty", that sounds like brettanomyces infection but it's really hard to say for sure.

The first thing I would do is get rid of any plastic equipment, and bleach bomb any glass and rinse well.

For the next batch, chill the wort cooler and ferment much cooler (like in the 60's F or 18C). Don't add the yeast until the wort is cooled to 18C at the most.

Keep sanitized items away from grain and make sure all post boil equipment is sanitized.
 
Gotta love this site - some great replies here - thanks!

After reading your suggestions, it could be temperature or sanitation. I can discount the grain infection as I have it crushed at the shop and bag sealed. During mashing in the kitchen, I always clean up any spilt grains and dust.

I brewed this batch in the Sydney summer which has been warm this year. Fermenting was about 25 deg C or so and hard to keep down with the high ambient temperatures this year.

A sparge was done at about 78 deg C and I only do a 14 L batch as I stove top boil and limited by the gas burner capacity.

The plastic equipment has my attention. My fermenter bucket is plastic and about 2 years old. It is a bit scored / scratched on the inside. Can this be an issued even with good cleaning?

And finally, no XXXX was consumed during this batch!
 
cluckk said:
Your description (Rugby players sock) sounds like you mean it has a sweaty, goat-like funkiness. It sounds to me like you got infected with Lactobacillus, which is very common and one of the main bugs we try so hard to get out. Interestingly it is the same bacteria that (along with a few others), on our bodies produces body odor. Of course it also produces sourdough bread, yogurt and many other fermented foods. It produces lactic acid giving your beer a twang and the nose could be described just as you do. It is also a major part of the flavor of Berliner Weiss.

I am very familiar with the aroma and flavor because I intentionally infect many of my beers looking for a bit of that (when it balances well with the style). I've never experienced the soapiness you described in an intentionally infected beer, but I have noticed it in wort where I grew lactobacillus in it to flavor a larger beer.

One way this could have happened, even if you are careful of sanitation is if raw grain is allowed to come into contact with your unfermented wort. Raw grain is covered with lacto. If you touched raw grain before touching something that went into the wort, that would do it too.

The only thing that makes me wonder if there might be another cause is your fermentation temperature, since lactobacillus prefer a temperature much higher (80's to 90's Fahrenheit). But if you had some point where your wort stood at room temperature or higher for an extended period of time, lacto could have grown in it.
Click to expand...


a sweaty, goat-like funkiness mmmmm- yum!
 
cookmysock said:
I brewed this batch in the Sydney summer which has been warm this year. Fermenting was about 25 deg C or so and hard to keep down with the high ambient temperatures this year.
Click to expand...

If it was 77*F in the room, you could have had temps as high as 87*F inside the bucket. Can you figure out a way too get it cooled down 10-12*F at least for the first week?

cookmysock said:
The plastic equipment has my attention. My fermenter bucket is plastic and about 2 years old. It is a bit scored / scratched on the inside. Can this be an issued even with good cleaning?
Click to expand...

Yep. I believe it could be an issue.

A new bucket is cheaper than a batch of ingredients.:drunk:
 
Actually Brett gives you a barnyard, horse-blanket aroma (quite different from the sweaty, goaty aroma of lacto--I've used both in my beers intentionally) along with some fruitiness. You would also be complaining about a pellicle growing on top of your beer. The sweaty aroma is a symptom of lactobacillus.

Change your bucket to start with. As for the batch, give it time and see what develops. I'd rack to a secondary and let it bulk age to see how it melds and what comes of it. Understand that some of the characteristics of lacto are what make some foods--like expensive cheeses, sausages, sauerkraut, winter kimchi, pickles, sourdough bread, etc.--so prized. It is a taste and aroma that one can come to love--I know I have.
 

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