made my first lousy beer

[Hoochin'Fool]

Somehow made my first "diacetyl bomb" beer. It's a recipe I've made at least 8 or 9 times before and has always been great, but this latest one turned out nasty -- a big load of butterscotch in what was supposed to be a nice, amber ale. I don't recall there being any "oh ****" moments on brew-day. What are the usual causes of this? Just bad temperature control during fermentation? Was brewed back in mid Sept, bottled 2 weeks later, and just now tasted a bottle -- couldn't do more than a couple of sips it was so buttery.

recipe Amber Ale (og: 1055, fg: 1008, ibu: 33)
85% 2-row brewer's malt
5% munich 10L
10% caramel 60L
and brown sugar (at same weight as the 5% munich)
Cascade hops @60 and @10, no dry-hop this time
US-05
Fermented like usual in a swamp cooler down in a cool basement (just like every other time)

 

[AlexKay]

If everything in your process is the same, I’d suspect infection.

 

[hotbeer]

Did you notice it at bottling time?

Perhaps more time in the FV would have ridded it of the diacetyl. Was the temp of your beer in the FV low? If so, it may have needed some time at warmer temps to rid itself of the diacetyl before bottling.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

I don't remember if I tasted a sample at bottling time. Certainly didn't see or smell anything unusual when cleaning out the fermenter.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

If everything in your process is the same, I’d suspect infection.

The one difference I'm aware of, is instead of using "Briess 2-row brewer's malt", this beer was made with "CMC brewer's malt".
I'll open another bottle this evening and give it a good sniff test.

 

[rburrelli]

Has there been any changes to your water source?

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Has there been any changes to your water source?

This recipe gets half it's water from the tap (treated w/ Potassium Metabisulfite) and the other half RO-filtered from the grocery store. If anything changed in the tap water, none of us have noticed it from taste.

 

[VikeMan]

What are the usual causes of this?

Here's a C&P from a presentation I did a few years ago:

BTW, a lack of perceptible diacetyl at bottling doesn't necessarily mean there won't be any later. If there is still significant alpha acetolactate in the beer, it can oxidize to diacetyl after packaging.

 

[madscientist451]

Was the yeast a re-pitch?

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Yeast was not a re-pitch. Looks like best course of action is put the bottles in a warmer spot and hope that a couple more weeks does the trick.

 

[AlexKay]

Yeast was not a re-pitch. Looks like best course of action is put the bottles in a warmer spot and hope that a couple more weeks does the trick.

Since they’re undrinkable now, and there’s some (probably small) chance they could become drinkable, that seems like a sensible approach.

I still think infection is a likely culprit, so keep them in closed boxes, handle with eye protection, and be prepared to carefully dispose of the lot if you have gushers.

 

[IslandLizard]

I still think infection is a likely culprit

That's what I suspect too. Pediococcus is the likely culprit, being a fantastic diacetyl generator!

Have you ever taken apart and thoroughly cleaned the inside of the exit valve on your boil kettle?
Pediococcus can hide in there, surviving the boil, and even the indirect heat from your burner. It's often found within a black slime in the ball chamber of the valve.

Similar for spigoted fermenters and bottle buckets. Those valves need to be pushed apart to clean the space between the rotating barrels.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Boil kettle has no valves or plumbing of any sort. What's the trick to popping open the spigot without breaking it? I've got these spigots

Never mind, soaked it in hot water, seemed to loosen it up enough. Insides of this spigot were spotless. Likewise on my bottling spigot. But I have a third spigot that I won't be able to get to for a while, because I've got a just-brewed imperial stout fermenting in it right now

 

[IslandLizard]

If you've never done so, take the spigot assembly out of the bucket. Clean/soak/sanitize the rubber gaskets, the nut and the threads well. Brush out (clean) the inside of the large spigot barrel. All that stuff can hold onto bugs. Sanitize, then let dry. Before use, resanitize and reassemble/mount wet.

What's the trick to popping open the spigot without breaking it? I've got these spigots

I think those come apart.
Soak the assembly in some hot water. While still hot, immediately push the rotating spigot out of the main body. Just push the barb end on a countertop or so.

Any other equipment you use that has tight spaces touching your chilled wort or beer, where bugs could hide? Like auto-siphons.

 

[hotbeer]

@IslandLizard

Any idea if pediococcus also give the beer a sour taste or would the diacetyl be produced earlier than the lactic acid or overwhelm the lactic acid entirely?

 

[IslandLizard]

@IslandLizard

Any idea if pediococcus also give the beer a sour taste or would the diacetyl be produced earlier than the lactic acid or overwhelm the lactic acid entirely?

Yes, she sours too, producing lactic acid.

https://www.milkthefunk.com/wiki/Pediococcus

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

So I finally got around to trying another bottle from this same batch, and it smells and tastes perfectly fine: no butter/butterscotch/weirdness at all.

Only thing that makes sense, is that particular bottle wasn't quite cleaned before reusing...

Science, of course, dictates that I drink 3 or 4 more bottles tonight, to see if they're all good, too!


update: only got around to a 2nd bottle, which also tasted just fine.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

Finally bottled my imperial stout that had been fermenting in a bucket with the one remaining spigot that had never been pulled apart for cleaning. The stout smelled fine, but tasted pretty damn harsh (to be expected, it's 11% abv and 70 ibu's). When I pulled this spigot apart, it looked fine, nothing gross in there.

 

[passedpawn]

I made an Octoberfest one year that I donated to a club event. One of the experienced brewers told me it was awful with diacetyl, and further said he was surprised they even served it at the event. I loved the beer.

So, I do like butterscotch things lol. But I swear I thought it was a normal Ocfest. Maybe diacetyl doesn't affect some people like me.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

I made an Octoberfest one year that I donated to a club event. One of the experienced brewers told me it was awful with diacetyl, and further said he was surprised they even served it at the event. I loved the beer.

Ouch! Any chance he just got a "bad bottle", or was it kegged (or maybe he was just an ass)?

 

[passedpawn]

Ouch! Any chance he just got a "bad bottle", or was it kegged (or maybe he was just an ass)?

haha, I'm sure he was right. Not an ass, just a guy that tells it like it is, which is what I love. Kegged.

 

[Brewdog80]

I stopped using plastic buckets when I had 2 in a row go south. Dropped the money on an anvil foundry 10g and then a fermenter.. just added a leg kit (should be std or at least a few dollar discount as you toss original legs) to drop beer directly into keg. Got too much of a hassle to lift fermenter onto high enough counter... I can roll the foundry to where I want to have fermenter and pump into it, never lifting anything but the keg into fridge. Getting old sucks.

 

[lumbergh]

Get a bulk buy on those spigots and toss them every/every few batches might be something to consider