Your Opinion on my Lager Fermentation Please

I Brewed a Helles Bock on Thursday, Nov. 11th, which had an F.G. of 1.078 (yes, I know, to big, but I got better Efficiency then expected). I Pitched my Yeast (from a 3 liter starter that had been refed) at 60 Degrees, and I placed the carboys into the freezer at a temp of 50 degrees. The next Moring, I then set the Ranco at 55 degrees. I fermented at 55 until Saturday, the 20th., at which point I started my Diacetyl rest. Tomorrow, the 25th., I will start knocking the temp down again, 2 degrees a day, until I get to 34 degrees, at which point I will then rack to a secondary and Lager the beer for 6-12 Weeks. As far as where the Gravity is now, I can't tell you because I have yet to take a reading. I will be doing that this Saturday. I just wanted to hear other's Opinions on how everything looks so far.

I just knocked out a smoked Helles Bock on Saturday. O.G. 1.072. I'll wait for the krausen to start dropping then I'll crank the temp up. When it drops clear I know it's done and I'll rack it for lagering. You don't sound too far off. You can slowly drop the temp I just let it drop clear and then crash it.

I wouldn't decrease the temp until you know it is done fermenting. If you had an active starter, it is probably close to finishing, but make sure before the yeast goes dormant.

I just took a hydromter reading from one of the Carboys. Right now I am at 1.022. Not to shabby(granted, the sample temp is at 55 degrees, so I am going to wait until it comes up in temp and take another reading) as I am expecting to drop a couple more points during the Lagering phase. Time to start dropping the temp.

Make that 1.020. Just took another reading with the Hydromter flask warmed up to about 65 degrees. Going to take another reading from the second carboy now. This is a great fermentation so far though.

Second Carboy is also at 1.020. HELL YEAH!!! Knocking it down to 45 degrees today, then 40 tomorrow, then 35 on Saturday. Rack to secondary on Sunday. Then the 8-12 Week Patience game starts.

It's not too late to knock that ABV down by adding water. You can add it at bottling time. Maybe you don't care, and that's cool, but if you plan on competition just hitting style ...

Sounds like you nailed the process, though. I'm bottling 4 lagers this wkend (in the middle of #2 right now). All variations on pilsners.

passedpawn said:

It's not too late to knock that ABV down by adding water. You can add it at bottling time. Maybe you don't care, and that's cool, but if you plan on competition just hitting style ...

Sounds like you nailed the process, though. I'm bottling 4 lagers this wkend (in the middle of #2 right now). All variations on pilsners.

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Thanks for the Heads up as far as adding water. I will be enetering this beer in a competition, but I really don't want to go adding water to knock down the ABV. Yeah I'll lose a few points in competition for the "Not to Style" ABV, but seeing as how this is my first REAL Attempt at a Lager, I just wanted to get the Fermentation thing down before I brew another. Next time I'll concentrate more on my S.G. on Brew Day as far as Efficiency is concerned. But Hell, I'm Psyched as all Hell as far as how well the Fermentation Process has gone so far.

how's it smell and taste?

RLinNH said:

Make that 1.020. Just took another reading with the Hydromter flask warmed up to about 65 degrees. Going to take another reading from the second carboy now. This is a great fermentation so far though.

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Perfect! NOW it's the time to do the diacetyl rest.

RLinNH said:

Second Carboy is also at 1.020. HELL YEAH!!! Knocking it down to 45 degrees today, then 40 tomorrow, then 35 on Saturday. Rack to secondary on Sunday. Then the 8-12 Week Patience game starts.

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I wouldn't. You want to do the diacetyl rest, and not rack until you're at FG. Don't lower the temperature until you're at FG. And don't lower the temperature until after the diacetyl rest is complete!

Yooper said:

I wouldn't. You want to do the diacetyl rest, and not rack until you're at FG. Don't lower the temperature until you're at FG. And don't lower the temperature until after the diacetyl rest is complete!

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Diacetyl rest has already been done. I brought both carboys up to 58 degrees for 5 days prior to these Hydrometer readings.

RLinNH said:

Diacetyl rest has already been done. I brought both carboys up to 58 degrees for 5 days prior to these Hydrometer readings.

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Well, then still don't lower the temperature until it's completely finished!

Normally, you do the diacetyl rest when you're about 75% of the way to FG or so. During the diacteyl rest, you usually hit FG. If you're at FG, then you want to rack and begin the lagering. Even with a bigger beer, I'm not sure you're at FG. You might drop a few more points.

Yooper said:

Well, then still don't lower the temperature until it's completely finished!

Normally, you do the diacetyl rest when you're about 75% of the way to FG or so. During the diacteyl rest, you usually hit FG. If you're at FG, then you want to rack and begin the lagering. Even with a bigger beer, I'm not sure you're at FG. You might drop a few more points.

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From 1.078 to !.020.? I was shooting for 1.020 for an F.G. I'm right there now. So I'm starting my Cold Crash before I rack to my secondary vessel.

RLinNH said:

From 1.078 to !.020.? I was shooting for 1.020 for an F.G. I'm right there now. So I'm starting my Cold Crash before I rack to my secondary vessel.

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Sure, it's your beer. Do what you'd like. Just given you my thoughts, since you asked! I don't know how you picked 1.020 to shoot for, because I don't know which yeast strain you used. Some lager strains could take a 1.078 OG to 1.014 or so, like Czech Budejovice Lager yeast. There are some lager yeast strains that will get you 80% attenuation.

You mentioned that you expect the gravity to drop a couple more points during lagering, and I was pointing out that it won't. That's all.

Yooper said:

Well, then still don't lower the temperature until it's completely finished!

Normally, you do the diacetyl rest when you're about 75% of the way to FG or so. During the diacteyl rest, you usually hit FG. If you're at FG, then you want to rack and begin the lagering. Even with a bigger beer, I'm not sure you're at FG. You might drop a few more points.

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I never d'rest until I hit FG, usually 10 days or so. I've never have had diacetyl in any beer (at least I can't taste it). The yeast is still plenty active to clean up after I raise temps. That's my story and I'm sticking to it I don't really like the idea of 25% of my lager fermentation happening at non-optimal temps.

Yooper said:

Sure, it's your beer. Do what you'd like. Just given you my thoughts, since you asked! I don't know how you picked 1.020 to shoot for, because I don't know which yeast strain you used. Some lager strains could take a 1.078 OG to 1.014 or so, like Czech Budejovice Lager yeast. There are some lager yeast strains that will get you 80% attenuation.

You mentioned that you expect the gravity to drop a couple more points during lagering, and I was pointing out that it won't. That's all.

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I used WLP833, 70%-76% appearent attentiuation.

Flavor Wise, it's BReady, like a Helles should be with minimal Hop Flavors. It does taste young and green, but I think it'll be a great beer after the Lagering phase.

RLinNH said:

I used WLP833, 70%-76% appearent attentiuation.

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Your mash "can" have a huge affect on that. For giggles I got a German Pils made with 100% Pils malt to finish at 96% with WLP 830. White Labs rates it at 74-79%.

PT Ray said:

Your mash "can" have a huge affect on that. For giggles I got a German Pils made with 100% Pils malt to finish at 96% with WLP 830. White Labs rates it at 74-79%.

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I agree. I've seen measured data online that shows exactly this by mashing for exended periods of time. I.e., a 1-hour mash that produced a fermentatability of 75% might go all the way to 90% fermentability if extended to 3 hours.

So, although the starches are made to be 100% soluble after a short period (100% conversion), the resulting sugars continue to become more fermentable with longer exposure to enzymes.