The old argument.

I want to start up this argument again. I leave my brew in the primary for usually a month. I find it dries out nicely and I guess it cleans up flavors. Brew guides and recipes tend to have secondary or bottle once beer reaches final gravity. After two weeks I am at final gravity, I let sit another two to clean up as many have suggested. What is everyones opinion on this?

To sit or not to sit in primary.

Ok what do you do? Maybe I felt those other discussions and threads were dried out with grumpy gooses?

I don't like it sitting to clean up off flavors unless I can taste off flavors that need cleaning up. If it is at final gravity and tastes right it gets bottled. No sense in waiting it out when you don't have to.

Thanks for the actual response. (An opinion I hadn't seen on the other threads)

I have found that the phenol flavors I thought I would get with my hefs were missing after bottling. Thinking that I let it sit and mellow too long. I will try to taste right method next time and maybe this time with my pumpkin (dont want to loose too much spice)

If you think this topic is old and/or tired, feel free to gloss over this thread without posting. Clearly the OP did "search first," and he didn't find what he wanted, so he started a discussion. That's how forums work. Carry on with the on topic discussion, please.

I think the only way to answer questions like this, is to split a batch, ferment identically, and let one bulk age for longer. Taste both a couple months after bottling, and longer, to see any long term affects.
There is enough evidence to support both practices, that it's going to be something like desire for no extra handling, cleanup, etc which decides it for you.
I fall into the secondary only for fruit or other additions camp, so I can save the yeast easier.

kcross13 said:

I want to start up this argument again. I leave my brew in the primary for usually a month. I find it dries out nicely and I guess it cleans up flavors. Brew guides and recipes tend to have secondary or bottle once beer reaches final gravity. After two weeks I am at final gravity, I let sit another two to clean up as many have suggested. What is everyones opinion on this?

To sit or not to sit in primary.

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The only thing I need aged is my wines. Bring on the beer quickly (easy come, easy go).

kcross13 said:

Thanks for the actual response. (An opinion I hadn't seen on the other threads)

I have found that the phenol flavors I thought I would get with my hefs were missing after bottling. Thinking that I let it sit and mellow too long. I will try to taste right method next time and maybe this time with my pumpkin (dont want to loose too much spice)

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That's more likely yeast choice, pitch rate and temperature.

pelipen said:

I think the only way to answer questions like this, is to split a batch, ferment identically, and let one bulk age for longer. Taste both a couple months after bottling, and longer, to see any long term affects.
There is enough evidence to support both practices, that it's going to be something like desire for no extra handling, cleanup, etc which decides it for you.
I fall into the secondary only for fruit or other additions camp, so I can save the yeast easier.

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The only issue with that is each different yeast strain has different needs. I just did one with wlp400 and it took longer to clean up than my usual Pacman beers. Hence why I feel a taste is really the best indicator. If it tastes done and has a stable FG then what will you gain bulk aging it that you wouldn't gain bottle aging?

For hefe’s I bottle after 10 days in the primary if gravity is stable. For other beers, I generally leave it for three or four weeks, and then bottle if gravity is stable (and it always is). I don’t like to disturb the beer any more than necessary due to risk of contamination. Leaving it alone three to four weeks, then checking gravity twice over three days, and bottling right after checking the gravity the second time is a hands-off approach with minimum chance of contamination. It gives it some chance for clean-up if needed, even though I never know whether it actually was needed or not.

I use dry yeast FWIW most of the time.,. I do 3 weeks for all but < 1.045 and 2 for those. Nottingham, S-05 and S-04, 64-69, I might bump up temps the last 3 days, otherwise it's pitch & forget.

YMMV and WTF etc.

Steve da sleeve

It depends on the style so no real answer.


Session ales which I mostly brew sit in the primary for 2 weeks then straight to keg and gas applied.

I have no problem letting my beers sit for months if there is no keg or bottle availability, but at the same time, with proper pitching rates of active, healthy, happy yeast and good temperature control and sufficient o2 the presence of off flavors is virtually gone. Therefore I also have no problem packaging a beer (as long as the d-rest is done with some ale yeasts) once FG has been reached. My lagers I get off the cake after d-rest and then lager 6-8 weeks, then keg.

My current best brew, drinking it now, sat on a yeast cake 3 generations old from a pitch of dry yeast for 86 days.

FWIW


Steve da sleeve

I do both, and it all depends on how busy my life is. If a batch is done in 12 days and I have time, I'll bottle it. If life gets in the way and I get too busy, it might sit in primary as long as 6 weeks. To be honest, I can't really tell the difference between either method.

+1 with Staffbier.

Kinda depends on time. I do like to secondary simply becase I want as little yeast in the bottle as necessary and I find I do a better job by using a secondary and cold crashing.

Like Stauffbier I bottle when I have time,I don't usually check so soon unless I know I won't have any free time coming up. I recently bought equipment to be able to do 10 gallon batches and the plan with that is bottle 5 gallons and secondary 5 gallons,then I will bottle the remaining 5 when I have time.If I have time to bottle all ten in one day it will happen if not it will sit in secondary until then.

Is that too long? I thought it was best to let the beer ferment and then rack it to a secondary to clear. Always thought letting the beer sit on the dead yeast was a bad thing?

I keg most of my beers after 10-14 days (+1 7 days if dry hopping). I rarely have flavor issues after 2 weeks.

I have enough fermentation vessel to be patient and I feel no need to rush, I make more beer than me and my gf can drink as it is. My ales are typically in the primary for 4-6 weeks. The only time I use a secondary is to free up space in the primary or for apfelwein. I will also be using them for some big beers once I move but still plan to let the beers sit on the cake for my typical 4-6 weeks.

I think I've tried all of the tricks to have clearer beer quickly and here is where I ended up. If you don't want to go to secondary (like me) and can't wait the extra time for the beer to properly clear, adjust your batch size so that more beer can be left behind. I used to tip the carboy and get every last drop of beer with the auto siphon but now I stop short and leave about an inch or so in the bottom.

Going to 10 gallon batches has allowed me to do this without sacrificing much of the effort put in on brewday. Also, if you ferment in better bottles, it works great because there is a large raised area and the auto siphon will literally sit right on the bottom in the center and pull no yeast.

Geiger420 said:

Is that too long? I thought it was best to let the beer ferment and then rack it to a secondary to clear. Always thought letting the beer sit on the dead yeast was a bad thing?

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Here's a link to a good thread on that subject:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/secondary-not-john-palmer-jamil-zainasheff-weigh-176837/

I agree with Pelipen, split the batch and run some tests to see. I did that with the old primary only vs secondary and now, i dont bother to secondary very often (did so today with some fruit).

I never thought to split and bottle at different fermentation times, next test found, thanks for the thread and idea! Ill let you know what I find on that in a month or so

Maybe it makes a difference whether you have a fermentation chamber with accurate temperature control. Those of us that use a swamp cooler or other method might not have good steady temperature. One batch might work out well, while another has wider temperature swings. Some extra time in the fermenter can be good insurance in case some clean-up is needed.

Breweries, brew-pubs, and nanos frequently push out beers in 7 days. I started doing it myself. I use Westmalle and Fuller's yeast (530 and 002) for everything. If your process is solid and you can keg/cold crash, there is no reason why you can't do this. My pumpkin ale I made recently went from grain to glass in six days. It tasted best on day 7. I'm about to open a nano and I'll be doing things this way from now on.

I really think the only beers that need to age are high gravity ones with a lot of specialty malts.