I'm this close to giving up. Seriously.

gratus fermentatio said:

Just did a little research, just in case. IF Your "super-religious" family members are Christian, you can always point out that the bible does indeed allow for divorce, and spells it out in Deuteronomy 24:1 thru 24:5... It's pretty straightforward too. I'm NOT a bible thumper, I just thought such info might come in handy for you at some point. Good luck to you. Regards, GF.

Click to expand...

NICE- I'm not a bible thumper either, and YOU have to do whats right for YOU. Not what you think your family wants.

I love my Dad- He is an awesome person, I respect him more than anyone else in the world, and I hope to be half the father to my children that he is to me,

BUT,
He is the last person I would ask for advice.

I don't know you, but have some experience in dealing with people with mental illness,(family member) and neighbor is bipolar. Sounds like the same symptoms.

gratus fermentatio said:

Just did a little research, just in case. IF Your "super-religious" family members are Christian, you can always point out that the bible does indeed allow for divorce, and spells it out in Deuteronomy 24:1 thru 24:5... It's pretty straightforward too. I'm NOT a bible thumper, I just thought such info might come in handy for you at some point. Good luck to you. Regards, GF.

Click to expand...

True, but what does 24:5 say exactly? That when a man takes a new wife he goes NO WHERE for the first year, not to war, not to do business.... maybe them boys knew a little something...

+1 All this talk of divorce and "first wives" makes me not want to get married. I think I might start an HBT Psycho-Ex thread to see how many of us have ex-wives/husbands and are now happily settled with seconds.

Click to expand...

I am 61 and my wife is 56. She is my first wife and I am her first husband. We have went through many trials over the years because we are both strong willed people but through it all we have been as happy as anyone can expect. She is my lover and best friend and we both enjoy many things together. We also have separate hobbies and friends and there is no jealousy nor any reason for it. If I had it to do over, I would not hesitate for a split second to marry this woman.

You folks that are soured on relationships have not found the right partner and that is all I am going to say about that.

I believe the key to our success is that we both were secure as individuals before we met and had common values.

KopyKat said:

I am 61 and my wife is 56. She is my first wife and I am her first husband. We have went through many trials over the years because we are both strong willed people but through it all we have been as happy as anyone can expect. She is my lover and best friend and we both enjoy many things together. We also have separate hobbies and friends and there is no jealousy nor any reason for it. If I had it to do over, I would not hesitate for a split second to marry this woman.

You folks that are soured on relationships have not found the right partner and that is all I am going to say about that.

I believe the key to our success is that we both were secure as individuals before we met and had common values.

Click to expand...

Very true Jerry. I am 44 my wife is 46. We have been married for almost 22 years. I'm her 2nd, she's my first. We were just having a discussion over lunch with my son yesterday about his relationship with his girlfriend. The long and short of it was this: if you don't think you can't live without her, you haven't found the right one yet.

Yambor44 said:

Very true Jerry. I am 44 my wife is 46. We have been married for almost 22 years. I'm her 2nd, she's my first. We were just having a discussion over lunch with my son yesterday about his relationship with his girlfriend. The long and short of it was this: if you don't think you can't live without her, you haven't found the right one yet.

Click to expand...

Maybe I'm just jaded, but there's no one in this world that I couldn't live without. There are people whose death would pain me, some much more than others, but none that I couldn't live without. I love my wife immensely, but I'm a survivor at heart.

Sorry to zombie this thread, but I think how I responded to her little blow-up overall kinda scared her straight a bit. I went out to a party last thursday night, mostly nerds and networking, but I did happen to stumble into a casual conversation with this one chick. Totally innocent, she talked about her husband, I talked about my wife, we bitched about our jobs and talked about video games, but anyone who knows me knows actually acknowledging a woman let alone having a conversation with one is kind of a big deal for me.

In any case while I was gone she took a bath, read a book, and watched some TV. She didn't try to call me and I gave her a call to let her know I was on the way home. When I was back she asked if there were any girls there. I told her exactly what happened. I can't say she took it like a normal person but I was quick to point out her insecurities and got her to agree that it was silly to be freaking out but that she couldn't help it and wished she could stop.

So yeah, it didn't end in a nuclear meltdown. I wasn't able to get her to drop her whole "god what a whore" bull****, I'm not likely to have a stable platonic friendship with a woman anytime soon without her pulling her hair out, but I sorta feel like this is progress.

Actually saying it, it sounds a lot less impressive than it seemed in my head. I got nowhere trying to schedule a time with the psychiatrist I picked and that kind of fell to the wayside.

Brownie, man, don't let that psychiatrist fall by the wayside. If you don't see yourself having a platonic friendship with a woman, that's a serious problem.

so did you do a body shot with the video game chick? :rockin:

sorry, just kiding -- best of luck to you and your wife.

Is there any reason you and your wife don't attend these parties together?

feh. Also working against me are my crippling shyness and lack of real-life friends as it is. Those aren't her fault.

bernerbits said:

feh. Also working against me are my crippling shyness and lack of real-life friends as it is. Those aren't her fault.

Click to expand...

No, but they should be clues to her that you aren't out trolling for another. I'm sure your wife is a great gal, but she's got some insecurities that need to be addressed. Trust me, my ex was the same way.

AZ_IPA said:

Is there any reason you and your wife don't attend these parties together?

Click to expand...

Mostly she doesn't want to hang around with nerds all night. Plus she gets tons of social stimulation at work and doesn't really enjoy "going out".

It's just as well, when she comes with me to social events she gets overly critical of my behavior and trots out the old "I don't know why you say some of the things you do" lecture.

God, come to think of it, I don't know if we've ever been out with people where we both went, "ya know, I had a lot of fun tonight" afterwards. Maybe a few times back when I was forcing her to go out.

shecky said:

Brownie, man, don't let that psychiatrist fall by the wayside. If you don't see yourself having a platonic friendship with a woman, that's a serious problem.

Click to expand...

Agreed. The progress is there, but it's tenuous and without reinforcement, I doubt it will last long.

bernerbits said:

feh. Also working against me are my crippling shyness and lack of real-life friends as it is. Those aren't her fault.

Click to expand...

It kind of is is she is the one not allowing you go go out and hang out with friends. I agree with Shecky, DO NOT let the psychiatrist go away. Is it her that's kind of writing it off then that should be a sign to you!

These replies might come off to you as attacks, but they are just honest help and concerns from people removed from the situation with no emotional influence. This is a great tool to have available in these type situations.

Nah IP, nothing from her really. She's not standing in the way of my socialization, at least not right now. No writing off of her behavior either. I think for the moment she understands she has insecurities that prevent her from acting normally in her relationships... she's apparently got a good older coworker to do some ballbusting if she's been treating me badly. She's even told her she needs to shape up soon or she's gonna lose me I'm not sure if that's a good thing to be telling someone so insecure but I'm glad I'm not the one who had to say it...

Trust me, I was shy and insecure looooooooooooooooong before I knew my wife. The nice thing with my ex, batsh1t insane as she was, was she at least didn't have too much problem with me talking to other girls. I think it's because with her, she knew I was way too scared of her to ever cheat.

bernerbits said:

It's just as well, when she comes with me to social events she gets overly critical of my behavior and trots out the old "I don't know why you say some of the things you do" lecture.

Click to expand...

Bernie man, this is not a healthy marriage. It's not even worth it to hang out with people like this let alone be married to them! This is supposed to be your best friend here. Would you treat your best like that?

bernerbits said:

God, come to think of it, I don't know if we've ever been out with people where we both went, "ya know, I had a lot of fun tonight" afterwards. Maybe a few times back when I was forcing her to go out.

Click to expand...

Just, I don't know, just another comment to read back to yourself.



Hopefully things will dramtically turn around for you two in therapy. but if they don't Try just living alone for a at least a year. Develop a sense of self and confidence before allowing yourself another relationship. Not bashing, but you need to do some work for yourself so you're not getting walked on so much. (based off comments about your wife and ex girlfriends)

Just to reiterate, I don't wanna sound like I'm bashing you although it probably totally does, but I'm just being honest in what I feel would be good you personally. I'm not concerned with your wife's feelings.

IrregularPulse said:

Bernie man, this is not a healthy marriage. It's not even worth it to hang out with people like this let alone be married to them! This is supposed to be your best friend here. Would you treat your best like that?



Just, I don't know, just another comment to read back to yourself.

Click to expand...

For such a youngster, IP speaks well here.

Your wife sounds exactly like my ex. When I was on the road, she always wanted to know what I was doing and who I was doing it with. I never thought of cheating, let alone did it. Of course, who ends up cheating while I'm away? Her.

My current lovely amazing wife asks what I'm doing and who I'm doing it with in purely an interested manner. She knows I hook up with some HBTers when I'm on the road, people I "know" from a forum, and she always is interested to hear how it went in a conversational way. No suspicion, no digging.

I hope I don't sound judgmental here, but IP is right. This is not healthy. You'll spend your life walking on eggshells trying to please somebody who appears to prefer being pissed at you for no good reason.

Bernie man, this is not a healthy marriage. It's not even worth it to hang out with people like this let alone be married to them! This is supposed to be your best friend here. Would you treat your best like that?

Click to expand...

I didnt bother reading trough the whole tread, hope it's not one from 2007 or something like that but i was gonna say the exact same thing.

Marriage or love isn't supposed to be like that at all, it should be a fun and happy experience, a mutual friendship and trusting relationship.

There are millions of people out there, why waste any time with the ones you don't have anything in common with?

All stuff to bring up in therapy, I guess.

The insane part is she's able to go long enough between bouts of this behavior that when I bring it up, she can always take one specific thing and go "name one time I did that"... and of course I can't because a loving husband isn't supposed to hold grudges. So then she goes, "yeah I thought so" and then she starts off with eighteen billion regular relationship f**kups I've committed over the past 4 years. The kind of **** I wouldn't remember if she weren't constantly bringing it up.

I'm just scared that a therapist will find me in the wrong here. I'm told marriage counselors especially have a bad habit of siding with the woman. I mean you can't imagine what that would probably do to my ego. And what kind of person that might turn me into. God it might be like the last couple years with my ex... but for the rest of my life...

I mean between that and some self-assertion that sooner or later ends up with a messy divorce... god there's no real good option...

And fuggit, a slow, generally pleasant, sometimes explosive heat death seems the better choice right now over forcing our collective issues into daylight.

Also, the "dump her and move on" people -- do you normally give this advice to someone who's been married only half a year? I mean again, not being able to sustain a marriage for 6 months -- I believe I've mentioned my ego issues before.

I'll quote Jack Kerouac when i tell you "Pretty girls make graves."

bernerbits said:

All stuff to bring up in therapy, I guess.

The insane part is she's able to go long enough between bouts of this behavior that when I bring it up, she can always take one specific thing and go "name one time I did that"... and of course I can't because a loving husband isn't supposed to hold grudges. So then she goes, "yeah I thought so" and then she starts off with eighteen billion regular relationship f**kups I've committed over the past 4 years. The kind of **** I wouldn't remember if she weren't constantly bringing it up.

I'm just scared that a therapist will find me in the wrong here. I'm told marriage counselors especially have a bad habit of siding with the woman. I mean you can't imagine what that would probably do to my ego. And what kind of person that might turn me into. God it might be like the last couple years with my ex... but for the rest of my life...

I mean between that and some self-assertion that sooner or later ends up with a messy divorce... god there's no real good option...

Click to expand...

I did the therapy thing. Obviously, it didn't work. As for what it might do to your ego, yeah, it will be tough, but looking back it was one of the greatest experiences for me. It made me so much stronger I can't possibly tell you.

This isn't going to be easy. And nobody says it can't work out, but it has to work into being a mutually respectful, trusting relationship. If you don't have that, you don't have ****.

I'm betting, from experience, that if things start to get messy, she might realize she was in the wrong. Where it goes from there I can't tell you. I can tell you I'll be thinking of you and hope things work out for the best, whatever that might be.

Marriage or love isn't supposed to be like that at all, it should be a fun and happy experience, a mutual friendship and trusting relationship.

Click to expand...

Well and see, all the advice I got pre-marriage was that marriage is a lot of work and not all fun and happy all the time. So I guess I expected to have some fights and for her to be angry at me some of the time.

I'm just scared that a therapist will find me in the wrong here.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't bother with any therapy at that point, I'd just go for the Divorce papers and start a brand new life.

But... it's just my own personal way of seeing this.

f*ck, she still doesn't know that when I did the body shot I had an air-kiss with the waitress that squeezed the lime into my mouth -- no direct contact but I could taste her breath. I guess I was too scared to lump that in with the rest of the confession.

I've wrestled with the idea of telling her and for the most part figured it's not worth the ensuing pain. But other times I figure it's going to have to come out sooner or later...

bernerbits said:

Well and see, all the advice I got pre-marriage was that marriage is a lot of work and not all fun and happy all the time. So I guess I expected to have some fights and for her to be angry at me some of the time.

Click to expand...

Marriage is work, but it shouldn't be anxious work. You shouldn't walk on eggshells. You should fight sometimes but holding onto the anger and holding grudges is not what it's about.

BTW, feel free to get pissed at her, too.

I dunno. I get frustrated, boggled, mystified, discouraged, resentful, distraught, panicked, ticked, miffed, offended, but I don't know if I ever get truly angry.

It just seems to me you gotta have a good f*ckin' reason and be able to back it up beyond a shadow of a doubt to really be *angry*.

dammit, I came here to talk about progress and here I am getting myself all discouraged again...

bernerbits said:

I dunno. I get frustrated, boggled, mystified, discouraged, resentful, distraught, panicked, ticked, miffed, offended, but I don't know if I ever get truly angry.

It just seems to me you gotta have a good f*ckin' reason and be able to back it up beyond a shadow of a doubt to really be *angry*.

Click to expand...

Seems to me you have plenty of reason. If you're not going to get pissed about her irrational insecurities, then she's got you backed into a corner. She feels she can get pissed at you for no reason because she knows you won't get pissed at her.

Fight back and I'll be she cowers a bit.

bernerbits said:

dammit, I came here to talk about progress and here I am getting myself all discouraged again...

Click to expand...

Sorry man, but your progress consisted of her not having a meltdown but still not reacting like a "normal person." Honest to God, I don't want to discourage you. But with due respect, you seem to be missing the forest for the trees.

Again, I'm just speaking from experience because that's the best I can do for you. In you I see the me of 15 years ago.

You seem to see marriage as being a very complicated thing, hey, it should be like friendship, you have friends and they will stay friends as long as you have some points of common interest, fun together and a good relationship, if not, you dump the friends and find other ones... no?

same thing with marriage, it's supposed to be a positive relationship, not the opposite.

Well hell, I made progress talking to a cute chick and not getting flustered anyway. And she made progress being passive-agressive towards the girl in question instead of directly aggressive towards me.

But hell, what if our relationship just doesn't WORK with all our issues out in the open? Then I could be seen as deliberately sabotaging the marriage... Ya know, if it sorta works don't try and fix it, that whole adage...

Sounds like a pretty ****ty situation my man, she needs to get over it and give you your freedom and trust you or it's time to part. You and her are married now and she needs to realize that whole situation and think about what she's doing.

I'm sure you've heard it a million times but you should really try to detach your self from the situation emotionally as best you can then sit down and really assess how happy you are, weigh the pro's and con's. It doesn't sound like she is reasonable and if compromises cannot be made then it's time to take your pro/con assessment into action.

bernerbits said:

Also, the "dump her and move on" people -- do you normally give this advice to someone who's been married only half a year? I mean again, not being able to sustain a marriage for 6 months -- I believe I've mentioned my ego issues before.

Click to expand...

Pardon my inability to be nice here but, what ego? You would rather walk on eggshells, compromise who YOU are, bow down to her every wish and try to be "the understanding husband" just to try to please someone who is not able to be pleased.... on the basis of your ego being hurt since you "couldn't even make this work for 6 months?"

Your Ego is the direct end result of your self worth, not some odd need/want to make a successful marriage happen. Thats not Your Ego.

She accuses you of cheating all the time? Either you are doing really shady things like not answering your phone, disappearing multiple nights of the week with no explanation, not being at work when you say you are etc, or... or... well, sometimes in order to justify "wrong doings", the person in the mirror needs to point the finger at someone else because they can't bear to look at themselves anymore.

Just saying...

My 2 cents.

Berner, are there kids involved? From what I read, I don't think so.

She's already proven she's not going to work with you and fix problems. You need to set an appointment with the councilor. If she balks, you've got your answer. One half working the problem isn't going to solve the problem.

Would you stay in a job if your coworker(s) treated you like this? Would you be friend's with guys that disrespected you this way?

She's only working with you when you scream at her and shock her system. I respect the fact that you want to work on this, but sometimes the only answer is to pay your losses and leave the table.

Don't talk yourself out of counseling just because it may be hard on you. If what you say is true the counselor will find your wifes faults, I'm sure you have yours as well but they don't seem to be the problem here. Also I know you don't think you should give up this early, and let me tell you you should try your hardest, but sometimes we don't find the right one the first time so don't feel like a failure if it just doesn't work out. Either way your going to learn a lot about yourself through all of this. I have way more friends that have messed up relationships than I have friends that have normal ones, most of the time I just wish they would realize that things are not working and move on. One of my best friends says that my wife and I are one of the only what he would consider healthy relationships that he knows, he wouldn't lie to me, and I can truly say that I agree with him that my wife and I have a good relationship. We enjoy each others company like best friends do, that is what marriage should be like.

the easiest path is not always the wisest path. hard things happen to all of us everyday. your have to overcome your challenges. ever hear the saying "nothing free is worth having."? take a step back and re-evaluate before making a decision that will impact the rest of your life. :rockin::rockin:

bernerbits said:

I've wondered about the bipolar thing, actually.

Click to expand...

+1 on that. If this happens all the time, it sure sounds like it. I have relatives who are bipolar who used to fly off the handle and get all delusional like that. Now that they are treated for it they are fine.

Crawling through the thread it looks like you are on the right track. Good luck.

mmb said:

Berner, are there kids involved? From what I read, I don't think so.

Click to expand...

Hoo boy. I know it's a long thread and I really don't like to have to re-condense the thread every time someone asks the same questions but no, no kids.

mmb said:

She's already proven she's not going to work with you and fix problems.

Click to expand...

What specifically is giving you that impression? She's agreed to see a counselor, I just dropped the ball by finding someone who doesn't take Friday appointments and waiting too long for them to get back to me about whether they make evening appointments or not.

mmb said:

Would you stay in a job if your coworker(s) treated you like this? Would you be friend's with guys that disrespected you this way?

Click to expand...

Again with the whole it's really not all the time thing. It's just infrequent enough that I can forget about it long enough to let my guard down.

mmb said:

She's only working with you when you scream at her and shock her system.

Click to expand...

**** no, screaming back results in things getting worse. Her own self reflection the morning after and my half a week of total withdrawal from her shocked her system.

mmb said:

I respect the fact that you want to work on this, but sometimes the only answer is to pay your losses and leave the table.

Click to expand...

Swear to f*cking christ it's weird nobody seems to respect the whole I vowed to stick it out for better or for worse with this woman so I'd better at least make some f*cking effort because if I make that promise then cut and run at the first sign of difficulty it's gonna be pretty goddamn difficult to consider my self a decent human being ever again aspect of this situation.

Pardon my inability to be nice here but, what ego?

Click to expand...

Nice. Do you bust every guy with self esteem issues by telling him you think he has lower self esteem than he thinks? Do you not get that it's a vicious effing cycle and the more self esteem I can convince myself I have, the more I can hang onto in the long run?

****, I know it could be a whole goddamn hell of a lot worse, because I've been through a whole goddamn hell of a lot worse in another relationship. I know for a fact I have more self respect now than I did then. Back then I wouldn't even have sought advice. At least now I fight back and I don't resign myself to the whole "she's probably right and I'm probably wrong" just to make problems go away.

I'm just up right now because I opened up this can o' worms earlier and haven't been able to stop thinking about it since, and she's snoring and I can't shut my brain off when she snores.

Did I mention I probably landed a 6-month contract with possibility of hire and a fairly decent pay increase? Don't want to jinx it but does anyone want to at least congratulate me on THAT so I'm not just feeling like an ass for both questioning this relationship AND pissing on all yall's advice?

IMO when someone is that un-trusting/controlling/nuts its because they are doing the very thing they are accusing you of.

jesus tap-dancing christ it's not projective identification!!

her mom abandoned her and her three siblings when she was like 11 and came back after long periods of absence every couple years with a different husband. Her father was a drug addict that threatened to kill her mom which prompted her to divorce him AND LEAVE THE KIDS IN HIS CUSTODY.

Eventually her grandparents kidnapped them from her father, obtained guardianship, and cut off all contact between them and both parents so they could have a normal childhood.

Her mom's currently a nurse with a pain pill addiction, her stepdad is an alcoholic, and together the two have a huge gambling problem. They've come to us asking for money and I've flat out refused them which has prompted her mother to decide I'm the bad son-in-law. This compared to my brother-in-law who steals credit card numbers and sleeps around on my wife's sister, whom he has a CHILD with and ANOTHER ALONG THE WAY. Her sister is aware of it, and she F*CKING FORGIVES HIM EVERY GODDAMN TIME because she thinks her kids need a father.

SO YEAH SHE'S GOT ISSUES. It's a f*cking miracle she's as normal as she is. Now everyone please stop speculating that she's got some skeletons she's not telling me about because I think I've got a PRETTY GOOD CLUE.

Its your life- be as miserable as you want to be.

IMO your situation would cause me to leave the ****ing country