Yeast Washing Illustrated

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I'd go the route of making a starter and harvesting several small batches from that. Next round, use one if your small batches as a starter. When you have 2 left, start over. Every time you make a starter, it's a new generation and the Vermont ale yeast is highly sensitive to generations (estimated 6-8 professionally max). Love the yeast profile but it's too finicky for me right now or I would be doing this.


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brewski09 said:
I'd go the route of making a starter and harvesting several small batches from that. Next round, use one if your small batches as a starter. When you have 2 left, start over. Every time you make a starter, it's a new generation and the Vermont ale yeast is highly sensitive to generations (estimated 6-8 professionally max). Love the yeast profile but it's too finicky for me right now or I would be doing this.


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So just instead of pitching, make a starter with the yeast vial and harvest from that starter to create multiple "vials" and then just pitch?

The harvesting part - same kind of question, but with this should i just split the starter and pull off the "wort" that i've added.

My confusion is just on what part of the washed yeast i actually want to keep, is it the liquid part, or the more solid part that settles?

thanks for all your help
 
There is viable yeast in both the solids that settle to the bottom and also in suspension in the liquid. It is "cleaner" to save the liquid only, but many people also pitch the entire slurry, solids included. I try to minimize the amount of solids in my washed yeast but I won't worry over it getting in my sample.


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catdaddy66 said:
There is viable yeast in both the solids that settle to the bottom and also in suspension in the liquid. It is "cleaner" to save the liquid only, but many people also pitch the entire slurry, solids included. I try to minimize the amount of solids in my washed yeast but I won't worry over it getting in my sample.


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Got it - so the ideal would be to get the liquid because of the yeast that is suspended in it and maximize that to pitch. i think i'm understanding
 
scrub0bk said:
Got it - so the ideal would be to get the liquid because of the yeast that is suspended in it and maximize that to pitch. i think i'm understanding
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My understanding is that ale yeast is a top fermenter, so while active it will be found primarily toward the surface. Everything else (hop residue, dead yeast, etc.) will tend to fall to the bottom. This isn't to say you won't find viable yeast in the bottom, rather they will be at their most concentrated in the suspension.

This presumably only works for ale yeast. Not sure what you'd have to do to wash bottom fermenters like lager yeast.
 
bristela said:
My understanding is that ale yeast is a top fermenter, so while active it will be found primarily toward the surface. Everything else (hop residue, dead yeast, etc.) will tend to fall to the bottom. This isn't to say you won't find viable yeast in the bottom, rather they will be at their most concentrated in the suspension.

This presumably only works for ale yeast. Not sure what you'd have to do to wash bottom fermenters like lager yeast.
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Exactly what i needed - thank you!
 
scrub0bk said:
So just instead of pitching, make a starter with the yeast vial and harvest from that starter to create multiple "vials" and then just pitch?



The harvesting part - same kind of question, but with this should i just split the starter and pull off the "wort" that i've added.



My confusion is just on what part of the washed yeast i actually want to keep, is it the liquid part, or the more solid part that settles?



thanks for all your help
Click to expand...


The multiple vials are for future starters. Make enough to capture these vials and have your pitch able starter. Always have a backup in case your last one doesn't work. I just know Vermont ale yeast (aka Conan) is a PIA yeast so I don't recommend washing. When your attenuation starts to drop, the east is done. This may happen very quickly generationally with this yeast.

You are supposed to let trub and protein matter drop out when washing and keep everything else. At least this is my understanding.


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Just want to clear up the confusion a bit, hopeful ly. There is no such thing as top fermenting vs bottom fermenting. Ales and lagers both ferment while in suspension. For whatever reason the term "top fermenting" got applied to ales in the past and it became misunderstood to mean that the fermentation happens at the top of the vessel (or bottom of vessel for lagers). This is simply not accurate. Harvesting any yeast works the same way. You build up a population of healthy yeast and get them in suspension, let the wort sit while the trub settles out, decant, and let that portion settle out the yeast that was previously in suspension. Hope that helps summarize. You can do this same thing for washing lager yeast, ale yeast, brett, any yeast...
 
Hanso said:
Just want to clear up the confusion a bit, hopeful ly. There is no such thing as top fermenting vs bottom fermenting. Ales and lagers both ferment while in suspension. For whatever reason the term "top fermenting" got applied to ales in the past and it became misunderstood to mean that the fermentation happens at the top of the vessel (or bottom of vessel for lagers). This is simply not accurate. Harvesting any yeast works the same way. You build up a population of healthy yeast and get them in suspension, let the wort sit while the trub settles out, decant, and let that portion settle out the yeast that was previously in suspension. Hope that helps summarize. You can do this same thing for washing lager yeast, ale yeast, brett, any yeast...
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. You learn a new thing every day. I guess that's the point of a forum like this. "Top fermenter" really is a misleading term then. Just as well that this misunderstanding doesn't change the fact that we're separating things by how quickly they sediment with this procedure. Also good to know that if I ever decide to try making lager that I'll be able to recover the yeast in the same way. I'm curious now about how the term "top fermenter" came into being.
 
can i vacuum pack the washed yeast in vacuum pouches with an industrial food grade vacuum machine.
vac packed foods last 3 times longer before its spoils so this might help the life span of the yeast as well ?!
could this work
 
My first attempt at washing yeast. My plan is to freeze store 3 or 4 vials.

I came to the conclusion that because I brew so I infrequently and I brew a variety of styles, freezing is my only option for reusing yeast.

This is a Kolsch yeast from a blonde ale I bottled last night. I have three pint jars settling in my ferm chamber. When I get the slurry dense enough, I'll buy the glycerine for freezing.

image.jpg
 
Never tried to freeze but it looks like the bottom half of the sediment is trub. Might want to wash it once more to clean up the yeast for storage. Nice volume collected.
 
What if we end up with a bad batch of brew? Do we ditch the yeast we've harvested? Would we not also collect bad organisms in this event? Or do you believe that bad brew is a result of poor bottle/kegging sanitation and primary fermenters tend to exhibit enough ph difference (wih all that alcohol) that yeasts will initially keep those baddies at bay?
 
cannman said:
What if we end up with a bad batch of brew? Do we ditch the yeast we've harvested? Would we not also collect bad organisms in this event? Or do you believe that bad brew is a result of poor bottle/kegging sanitation and primary fermenters tend to exhibit enough ph difference (wih all that alcohol) that yeasts will initially keep those baddies at bay?
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If I see visible signs or infection prior to kegging or bottling I don't use the yeast just to be safe. I am interested in what others think about your question.
 
catalanotte said:
Never tried to freeze but it looks like the bottom half of the sediment is trub. Might want to wash it once more to clean up the yeast for storage. Nice volume collected.
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There is some trub in the collected yeast, mostly hop particles. I tried to keep the slurry as thick as possible. I'm not going to worry too much about separating it out. I want to see how this attempt works out.

I finally picked up the glycerine today and I'll start the freezing process tonight.

EDIT: I filled up 16 White Labs vials and had a 1/2 pint of slurry leftover.
 
Beernik said:
I finally picked up the glycerine today and I'll start the freezing process tonight.

EDIT: I filled up 16 White Labs vials and had a 1/2 pint of slurry leftover.
Click to expand...

Beernik: Just remember that whatever fraction of your settled yeast is trub is the fraction by which the cell count is reduced. If you have 50 % trub you have half as many yeast as a tube of White Labs containing the same volume of settled yeast. It probably won't affect you greatly as you are probably growing up a starter. Just something to consider.

Also, based upon microscopic examination, a significant portion of the layer we expect to be pure yeast is small pieces of debris. I'm not sure what fraction by volume but it seems to be 10-20%.
 
I think for future attempts at this I'm going to step up a 2L starter a couple times to try to get 2 - 4 vials of slurry and use the rest to build a starter for the beer I'm making.

The White Labs vials are 50mL. I filled it half way with my slurry, so that's 25mL. If I assume its 50% unusable, that's ~ 12mL of yeast. I could pitch two or three of them into a 2L starter for a 5 gallon brew, right?
 
I would look at the volume of solids after it settles and given the age and lower viability, make a starter with 2 or 3 times the typical volume of solids in the bottom if a store bought tube. That, with a good starter, should get you there for a 5-6 gal batch of average OG wort.
 
With freezing, you don't let it settle. If it settles, the glycerine separates and the yeast are killed when it freezes. I've been shaking the vials every hour or two all day long.

I'll post a pic tomorrow when I've got them frozen solid.

I suppose it will be a judgement call when I thaw them out.
 
I don't believe there is any effect of letting the yeast settle. The important thing for viability is to cool slowly and thaw rapidly, at least based upon laboratory studies. There is always plenty of glycerine around and through the yeast. The yeast don't pack so tight as to exclude the surrounding glycerine since they are basically rigid spheres.

You might want to read my article on freezing which summarizes the findings of lots of folks participating in the yeast freezing thread


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Never tried freezing so I missed that point. I have been using washed yeast in fridge and use the settled volume to take away the variable of the concentration of the slurry. Still have to guess at the percent trub and the viability, but it takes one more variable away. Could you let one settle so you know exactly what % of yeast is actually in your vials.
 
catalanotte said:
Never tried freezing so I missed that point. I have been using washed yeast in fridge and use the settled volume to take away the variable of the concentration of the slurry. Still have to guess at the percent trub and the viability, but it takes one more variable away. Could you let one settle so you know exactly what % of yeast is actually in your vials.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand the question but the point of the washing procedure is to let the trub settle and keep the yeast. Then when the yeast settle, you know how much volume you have. You can leave excess glycerol on the settled yeast while freezing. If you have 50% of your volume as yeast and the other half as glycerol solution you have a 50% slurry.
 
I have been following along with the article on freezing. This morning, most of my vials have finally frozen. I didn't realize that would be a two day process when I packed them in gel packs, in a cooler.

There are a lot if things I'll change the next time I try this, like separating from a starter instead of washing yeast after fermentation. But it's not bad for my first attempt.

Most of them look like this

image.jpg
 
Sorry for the daft question, but followed these instructions 2.5 days ago with the yeast cake from a stout (US-04), just checked and all jam jars look like this.
Does it look ImageUploadedByHome Brew1410813157.001093.jpgok? When I re-use, do I just put it all in a starter?


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I am sure you will get a few different opinions, but if you can use it within a few days, I would just shake up the whole thing and pitch, if its more than 2-3 days, I would make a starter. I pour off the clear liquid and allow it to warm to room temperature before mixing with room temperature starter wort. Shake it up with enough starter wort to re-suspend the contents then pour it into a larger jar or flask. Share/stir frequently and give it 24 hours. Should be good to go.
 
Ok. Cool, cheers!

One jam jar be enough for one starter? They are 400ml, but looks like I only have 150ml yeast in each jar..


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Hard to tell from your picture how clean the yeast looks. If that is all yeast, with little trub, 1 jar will be plenty. I have made a starter with less than in inch of sediment (6 weeks old) and made a 500ml (pint) starter for 5 gal batch of 1.070 beer. Slow start to fermentation (about 20 hours) so I would double the starter if I did it again but it fermented very well (77% attenuation for 1056). If the beer is over 1.060 or so, you may want to use 2 jars in a 1-2L starter and let it go 48 hours. Happy Brewing.
 
Has anyone done a side by side experiment using washed yeast vs unwashed vs harvesting from starter?

I am looking to start one of these processes after 5 years of buying liquid yeast every time. I can't even imagine how much money I would have saved. I've been doing 10g batches for about 2 1/2 years now and buy 2 packages per brew.
 
The only observations I have, and this was not a side by side comparisons, is that recycled yeast seem to ferment at a slightly steadier level than new yeast. Less blow off the first couple days but good steady fermentation for a few days. I also notice that I get more predictable attenuation when reusing yeast.

For example, I got almost 88% out of a new pack of 1076 which killed my FG. When I reused this harvested yeast washed with distilled water, I got 77% and 78% in the next two batches. I will remake the first beer (88% one) and intend to use a 3rd generation of the the original yeast to see what I get. Far from scientific, but as controlled of a data point as I can get.
 
BSBrewer83 said:
Has anyone done a side by side experiment using washed yeast vs unwashed vs harvesting from starter?

I am looking to start one of these processes after 5 years of buying liquid yeast every time. I can't even imagine how much money I would have saved. I've been doing 10g batches for about 2 1/2 years now and buy 2 packages per brew.
Click to expand...

It depends on how often you brew. Harvested yeast should be turned around fairly quickly (a few weeks). Buying 1 vial and stepping a starter would probably be your best option if not brewing frequently and would save you about 25% after considering DME costs.
 
There's other benefits to washing yeast too though, like always having a fresh supply of your favorite strains on hand. This is especially true in the hottest parts and coldest parts of the country when having it shipped far distances. If you're fortunate enough to have your LHBS a short drive away and they store their yeast properly and always have a fresh supply then consider yourself lucky.
 
The answer might be in here somewhere, but a quick search didn't reveal it, so I'll just ask: can I use the first round of washed yeast to pitch again immediately? I mean, I assume I can do whatever I want, but I want to know if it's a bad idea :p

I have a batch of Brandon O's Graff (using US-05) that I'm planning bottling tomorrow, then turning right around and brewing an imperial stout. I was hoping to use the yeast from the Graff, but I didn't want to put the new brew right on top of the yeast/trub from the Graff. I also don't want to wait, as tomorrow is the only time I'll have to brew for a couple of weeks.

I can bottle, then do the washing while brewing the next batch, so it'll have a couple of hours of washing/settling. Good enough?
 
Only problem is it takes a while to settle, just like with a starter. But you won't have fermented beer like you would with a starter, just rinse water.

Basically it is a tradeoff between being able to decant the water and pitch more pure yeast, and pitching more of what is in the rinse jar, including more of the water, so you don't lose yeast still in suspension.
 
redzeker said:
The answer might be in here somewhere, but a quick search didn't reveal it, so I'll just ask: can I use the first round of washed yeast to pitch again immediately? I mean, I assume I can do whatever I want, but I want to know if it's a bad idea :p

I have a batch of Brandon O's Graff (using US-05) that I'm planning bottling tomorrow, then turning right around and brewing an imperial stout. I was hoping to use the yeast from the Graff, but I didn't want to put the new brew right on top of the yeast/trub from the Graff. I also don't want to wait, as tomorrow is the only time I'll have to brew for a couple of weeks.

I can bottle, then do the washing while brewing the next batch, so it'll have a couple of hours of washing/settling. Good enough?
Click to expand...
With washing, you are losing a lot of yeast down the drain. Not sure why you don't want to repitch the slurry. I do it all the time and so does every brewery.

Now that I actually read what a graff is, I can see why you might not want to repitch the slurry. I still think that only a half cup to cup of slurry in an imperial stout would be fine.
 
Being due to scheduling constraints, I didn't have time to let the water-and-slurry mixture settle before bottling in mason jars, so they were bottled with the sediment included.

Mason jars are now in my fridge, where they've been for a few days.

Will they be ok being stored without the sediment?

It is ok to transfer to another jar, leaving the sediment in the old one?

Should I just throw it all out?
 
I washed some yeast from a kolsch
The beer didn't turn out right at all, I'm blaming it on the lid being left of while boiling it.
Will the yeast ruin the next batch of beer if I use it?!


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