When to use carapils?

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hollywoodbrew

hollywoodbrew

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I like a creamy head on my beer, and I usually use carapils to get that effect. I'd like to know if there's ever a case where carapils is redundant.

In my case I'm working a pale ale recipe with 7% crystal malt. Currently, I devote a third of that to carapils. I'd like to go a tad darker and use more crystal80 in place of the carapils. Since my mash will be at 154F, can i assume there will be enough dextrine to still have that creamy head I love so much?
 
I almost never use carapils. To me, it's a "waste" of my percentage of crystal malt. The only time I use it at all is in a recipe of all basemalt and then I'll use a few ounces of it for head retention. Like in a Bohemian pilsner, for example, when there is no crystal malt or flaked wheat or other specialty grains.

If you have a recipe with 7% crystal malt, you certainly don't need the carapils. It's more of a "crutch" for a recipe lacking in crystal malt or other head-retention ingredients.
 
That's the answer I was hoping for. Thanks!

Is it safe to think of carapils like crystal 2? That is to say a crystal malt with no color?
 
hollywoodbrew said:
That's the answer I was hoping for. Thanks!

Is it safe to think of carapils like crystal 2? That is to say a crystal malt with no color?
Click to expand...

Yes, I think so. It "counts" as part of your crystal when you figure your %s, so I always consider it as a crystal malt.

Most recipes don't need carapils, and I'm always surprised when I see them in so many recipes, particularly extract recipes. It's almost always not needed, and I'd rather put good things in my grain bill- Munich malt, crystal malt, flaked wheat, etc, all bring great things to a beer.
 
hollywoodbrew said:
I like a creamy head on my beer, and I usually use carapils to get that effect. I'd like to know if there's ever a case where carapils is redundant.

In my case I'm working a pale ale recipe with 7% crystal malt. Currently, I devote a third of that to carapils. I'd like to go a tad darker and use more crystal80 in place of the carapils. Since my mash will be at 154F, can i assume there will be enough dextrine to still have that creamy head I love so much?
Click to expand...


I find CaraPils more useful than Yooper and use it often. While CaraPils is more or less part of the crystal malt family it has negligible flavor. Some versions, like Weyermann's CaraFoam, still have starch content and therefore will contribute a fair amount of fermentables to the beer. Since I like the little bit of "chew" that some extra dextrins provide CaraPils/CaraFoam is a simple way to introduce them to the brew. Standard crystal malts do have some dextrin content but I don't find the effect or certainly the flavors the same as CaraPils. Most of my beers, especially lagers, are mashed fairly low for a little more attenuation and drier finish. Adding some CaraPils to the recipe allows a boost to the mouthfeel of the beer without having a big effect on the finish or the flavor. :mug:
 
I don't have access to Carapils here and I've used mostly crystal grains for head retention.

While the head isn't other worldly massive (I can pour the glass a 1/3 full and the rest is bubbly goodness), I get excellent lacing and great retention.

I also feel like the crystals add enough in terms of mouthfeel and body.

That's my opinion at this stage of the game (very early in the game, I might add), as I learn more, I may change it.
 
BigEd said:
Most of my beers, especially lagers, are mashed fairly low for a little more attenuation and drier finish. Adding some CaraPils to the recipe allows a boost to the mouthfeel of the beer without having a big effect on the finish or the flavor. :mug:
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That's a great point! The reason I used carapils in my BoPils is because it was to be a drier beer, and I wanted it for the mouthfeel and some body. I didn't really think about other beers mashed low.

I mash most of my beers at 153-154 (I make a ton of IPAs and APAs) and use a bit of crystal in many of them. So for me, carapils wouldn't be necessary to get the finish that BigEd is talking about.
 
I'm probably somewhere between BigEd and Yooper on Carapils/Carafoam (for me it's always Carafoam). I often use it in lighter-colored lagers but not much otherwise. IMHO, it's head-retention boosting abilities are a bit over-rated (I'd rather use wheat or even better, flaked barley for that but those aren't always appropriate). I agree with Yooper that it is sometimes used as a 'crutch' but imo that's not the carafoam's fault, it's the brewer's fault (thinking it will magically give them good head). If you're not getting good head I doubt cara-anything is going to fix it too much (and conversely if you are getting good head you probably don't need the carapils to achieve that).

I think it would be harder to market carafoam if there wasn't a 'head-retention' claim. 'This malt tastes like nothing and does nothing for your beer, buy some now!'.:D
 
ill be making an APA using pale, wheat malt and carapils. what percentage do i need to get a medium body mouth feel with some maltiness? reason i ask is because i want a pale ale with that yellow glow. IPA beers like cellar makers, hill farmstead and societe.

5.5gal
mash @ 154f for 30-45 min.

10# pale malt
1# wheat malt
.5# c-10
.5# carapils

its at 4.5 srm. is this good enough to get some sweetness and keeping a bright yellow glow?
 
inda_bebe said:
ill be making an APA using pale, wheat malt and carapils. what percentage do i need to get a medium body mouth feel with some maltiness? reason i ask is because i want a pale ale with that yellow glow. IPA beers like cellar makers, hill farmstead and societe.

5.5gal
mash @ 154f for 30-45 min.

10# pale malt
1# wheat malt
.5# c-10
.5# carapils

its at 4.5 srm. is this good enough to get some sweetness and keeping a bright yellow glow?
Click to expand...

I'd try it without and see if you actually need it. So I'd say 0%! One trick would be to use a more flavorful base malt for some of the pale malt. For instance, 5# MO and 5# pale malt. Or use an english pale malt. I find that using base malt that has a bit more character gives a perceived body.
 
hollywoodbrew said:
I like a creamy head on my beer, and I usually use carapils to get that effect. I'd like to know if there's ever a case where carapils is redundant.

In my case I'm working a pale ale recipe with 7% crystal malt. Currently, I devote a third of that to carapils. I'd like to go a tad darker and use more crystal80 in place of the carapils. Since my mash will be at 154F, can i assume there will be enough dextrine to still have that creamy head I love so much?
Click to expand...

You can use as much as you like as long as you have a goal in mind and integrate the use with the rest of the ingredients. I am not a believer in the "you can't use more than x amount of crystal malt" theory. BS! You can use as much as you like of any ingredient as long as you don't use it carelessly.
 
I like carapils with any recipe that simply needs a little mouthfeel without adding a bunch of color or other flavors. The cream ale recipe that everyone around here loves uses US 2 row, a little carapils and some flaked corn. Light, refreshing but with some nice mouthfeel and good head retention. I fail to understand why carapils is a bad choice and why some other malt is a good choice.

My apologies to Yooper who sees it as a crutch, but for my money, if it works, it's right.
 
Puddlethumper said:
I like carapils with any recipe that simply needs a little mouthfeel without adding a bunch of color or other flavors. The cream ale recipe that everyone around here loves uses US 2 row, a little carapils and some flaked corn. Light, refreshing but with some nice mouthfeel and good head retention. I fail to understand why carapils is a bad choice and why some other malt is a good choice.

My apologies to Yooper who sees it as a crutch, but for my money, if it works, it's right.
Click to expand...

When I first started creating my own recipes, I'd say, "I want a 1.050 beer with a complex malt profile, I want it to be dark, have medium fruity esters, hoppy, and great head retention and medium body." Then, I'd add one or more ingredients to achieve each goal. It took me a while to figure out that I don't necessarily have to do this. My beers got better when I stopped doing this.

I see lots of people putting carapils in as a matter of course. Like, without it, there would be no head and it will be thin. I've found that not to be the case in many recipes (especially if there is other crystal malt present). However, if it adds something that you couldn't get without it, by all means use it! Your example sounds like one of those situations. Carapils not evil (like peat malt :p). It's just not always necessary.

Like Antoine de Saint Exupéry said: It seems that perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove.
 
inda_bebe said:
ill be making an APA using pale, wheat malt and carapils. what percentage do i need to get a medium body mouth feel with some maltiness? reason i ask is because i want a pale ale with that yellow glow. IPA beers like cellar makers, hill farmstead and societe.

5.5gal
mash @ 154f for 30-45 min.

10# pale malt
1# wheat malt
.5# c-10
.5# carapils

its at 4.5 srm. is this good enough to get some sweetness and keeping a bright yellow glow?
Click to expand...

With a lb of wheat and half lb of caramel, you won't need any carapils.
 
Puddlethumper said:
So help me understand here, please. Why do you advise him to drop the carapils instead of the C10? Why not reduce the wheat malt in favor of clarity?
Click to expand...

Oh, you could drop any of them. The c10 will add some sweetness/flavor/color, so that will change your recipe more than the wheat or carapils. Wheat will add mouthfeel, head retention, and subtle flavor. The carapils will add head retention and mouthfeel.
 
tagz said:
Oh, you could drop any of them. The c10 will add some sweetness/flavor/color, so that will change your recipe more than the wheat or carapils. Wheat will add mouthfeel, head retention, and subtle flavor. The carapils will add head retention and mouthfeel.
Click to expand...

OK. I missed that line in his post where he was looking for the sweetness. With APA style hops the need for more sweetness in the wort makes sense. And with that in mind the advice to drop the carapils also makes sense. Thanks.
 
I see the thread is a little old but I am just getting into Kegging and was wondering if Carapils is still necessary? I did use it when I bottled.
Thanks
 
MarsingRedneck said:
I see the thread is a little old but I am just getting into Kegging and was wondering if Carapils is still necessary? I did use it when I bottled.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Whether or not to use carapils is not influenced by the type of packaging you use. Sometimes I use it, sometimes I don't. It just depends on what you're going for.
 
wolves63 said:
Carapils is used for head retention and body, kegging or bottling will not effect its use.
Click to expand...


Although, if you choose to keg it, you may stir up the spirits from the Indian burial ground your house was built on.
 
I've replaced carapils with flaked barley in all my recipes and LOVE the change. I won't go back to carapils again.
 
Denny - They do produce different results, at least in my beers, but at the amount I've been using in them I didn't like what was happening with carapils.

Giraffe - In my experience so far, yes it does help with mouth feel and head retention but you really need to up the amounts to have the effect. Example being I like to brew a lot of lower alcohol beers (typically 3.5ABV) but I was tired of having a "thin" beer, so in addition to mashing very high and yeasts that contribute more mouth feel, I've started putting 20+% of the grist in some recipes as flaked barley. That's a lot of additional protein in the wort which I feel does help round out the body well, and make for your typical rocky head that rings the glass on the way down. Not nearly as chewy as something you'd find in a 6.5+ABV beer, but for a 3.5ABV beer to have the feel of a solid 5ABV beer I'm happy.

I know not everyone would like the change, but in my smaller beers I've been very happy with the results. I don't think I'd use the same ratio's/percentages of flaked barley if trying to make a normal/higher ABV beer - it'd get weird fast.

YMMV.
 
I'm curious how cara-pils affects the FG since it creates unfermentable sugars? I'm building a recipe for a simple, very dry Tripel and trying to figure out what percentage of cara-pils to use. I'm thinking 14 lbs pilsner and 2.5 lbs Belgian candy and mashing low, around 148-149. I often use flaked wheat but it seems to me flaked grains can give a slight cloudy or hazy appearance. I would like to make this batch crystal clear. Is 3-5% sufficient for mouthfeel in a recipe with no other caramel malts?
 
mjohnson said:
I see lots of people putting carapils in as a matter of course. Like, without it, there would be no head and it will be thin. I've found that not to be the case in many recipes (especially if there is other crystal malt present). However, if it adds something that you couldn't get without it, by all means use it! Your example sounds like one of those situations. Carapils not evil (like peat malt :p). It's just not always necessary.

Like Antoine de Saint Exupéry said: It seems that perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove.
Click to expand...

I had this point really driven home when I did some SMASH brews and still had a great mouthfeel. I don't worry about head retention stuff in any of my beers except stouts where I want a good amount of flaked.
 
Kalmah said:
Is 3-5% sufficient for mouthfeel in a recipe with no other caramel malts?
Click to expand...

Yes. 5% is the standard go-to. You might need to up it based on your recipe's FG etc. I'm not familiar enough with tripels as I don't like them, but 5% is typical.
 
I think for such a high gravity beer, you won't need to worry about body or head retention. 5% crystal would certainly be sufficient, or none at all. Your FG probably won't drop below 1.013, so if that's cool with you, I would just skip the crystal. It's not necessary for the style. Have you seen the westy 12 clone the pious?
 
hollywoodbrew said:
I think for such a high gravity beer, you won't need to worry about body or head retention. 5% crystal would certainly be sufficient, or none at all. Your FG probably won't drop below 1.013, so if that's cool with you, I would just skip the crystal. It's not necessary for the style. Have you seen the westy 12 clone the pious?
Click to expand...

Not that my anecdotal experience completely discounts what you are saying, my experience has probably unique. I did a Tripel recipe with only Pilsner and sugar and I definitely have issues with head retention. Next time I make it I'll throw either a touch of carapils or a handful of flaked/malted wheat to give that big rocky head.
 
ArkotRamathorn said:
Not that my anecdotal experience completely discounts what you are saying, my experience has probably unique.
Click to expand...

No, no this is a valid point to make. I was thinking more about body than head retention. 5% crystal would be a safe addition to make for a tripel. It definitely wouldn't hurt. What's your thoughts on crystal percentage?
 
ArkotRamathorn said:
Not that my anecdotal experience completely discounts what you are saying, my experience has probably unique. I did a Tripel recipe with only Pilsner and sugar and I definitely have issues with head retention. Next time I make it I'll throw either a touch of carapils or a handful of flaked/malted wheat to give that big rocky head.
Click to expand...

Neither the Belgian brewers nor I have any trouble with foam in a pils and sugar beer. People don't realize how much fermentation plays into beer foam. Check this out...http://byo.com/stories/article/indices/35-head-retention/697-getting-good-beer-foam-techniques
 
Denny said:
Neither the Belgian brewers nor I have any trouble with foam in a pils and sugar beer. People don't realize how much fermentation plays into beer foam. Check this out...http://byo.com/stories/article/indices/35-head-retention/697-getting-good-beer-foam-techniques
Click to expand...

Oh definitely I know there must be something I missed. I think I should have done a short quick decoction and I may have ended up with better head retention. After I drink up whats left of this tripel (still delicious, just bad head retention), I'll just try again next time with a decoction, the color will probably be a bit better and all of my decoction beers have great head.

Though if that doesnt end up working I'll take the easy way out and add some flaked wheat/carapils to be 100% sure.
 
ArkotRamathorn said:
Oh definitely I know there must be something I missed. I think I should have done a short quick decoction and I may have ended up with better head retention. After I drink up whats left of this tripel (still delicious, just bad head retention), I'll just try again next time with a decoction, the color will probably be a bit better and all of my decoction beers have great head.

Though if that doesnt end up working I'll take the easy way out and add some flaked wheat/carapils to be 100% sure.
Click to expand...

Decoction doesn't matter. In my tests, it's waste of time and effort. Did you read the article? It has tests to help you diagnose what the problem is.
 
Denny said:
Decoction doesn't matter. In my tests, it's waste of time and effort. Did you read the article? It has tests to help you diagnose what the problem is.
Click to expand...


None of the issues mentioned in the article would apply to my tripel, other than high alcohol 9.5%. I don't personally detect a lot of fusels and I don't get particularly bad hangovers from it. I'm not calling into question the article or saying it's wrong. For me with my beers and my process the two main things different about the tripel and all my other beers that have good head retention, I didn't add any adjunct flaked late/wheat or malted wheat to the grist, and I did not do a decoction.

For myself I like the decoction process and it doesn't affect my brew day so I do it a lot. Recent completed a saison with 1# of malted wheat and a tiny bit of honey malt and flaked oats, with a short 10 minute decoction and it has a fantastic rocky head and at 7.6% abv it's not like it's hugely under powered compared to the tripel.

Calculated SRM on my tripel is approximately 3.5 so a short 10 minute decoction won't get me way over the top on color, I can utilize the drop in pH to adjust my mash pH a bit, and if anything will deepen the malty character. If I replace 16oz of Pilsner with 16oz of red wheat there should not be an appreciable impact to flavor, same thing for 2-3% carapils should give the slightly extra foam positives without a dramatic affect on the flavor/color/aroma.
 

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