Drinking my first all grain batch

well this is it, my first all grain beer is on tap and I'm drinking it now

I've got to say though, I don't see much difference between this and the extract brews that I do - as far as color, flavor and aroma

I get the whole thing about controlling fermentability with with your mash temp and it is cheaper plus the bragging rights of doing it from scratch

but I really think I can duplicate any all grain beer using extract

Tell me I'm wrong and tell me all the reasons that All grain makes a superior product over modern extract

I want to hear it!!

:rockin:

i concur... I just don't see the need to mash 20lbs of two row, when the ultralight extract I buy IS two row. I usually have between 40-50% of my recipe ultralight extract then mash the rest. Makes great beer.

Both make really good beer. Some malt is tough to come by in extract form. Personally I enjoy the all grain process and savings from buying grain in bulk.

Versatility and additional options. Mashing flaked corn is a lot different than throwing in some corn sugar

Strange thing is when I make stout from extract it tastes better to me than my AG version. AG hefeweizen tastes better than extract.

Beer is beer.
Brew it and be happy. Use different techniques and recipes to get the beer YOU like.

I have to admit, I went right from Mr. Beer to AG so I don't have experience making real extract beer. I just like the mashing process though I am certainly not opposed to extract.

Actually, the first two AG batches I made were brewed just about when summer really hit. I didn't realize high ferment temps would make it taste nasty, so the first batches were rank. Much, much worse than any extract batch I'd made previously.

My kids use to tease me because I'd take a couple sips of my extract beer, hold it up to the light and say something like 'Damn, that's a fine beer!' Honestly, some of the best beer I've ever had.

Next thing I did was get a fermentation fridge, did my first batch in it at a very low temp (~63), and bottled it with diacetyl up the wahoo! It's slowly mellowing out and will be pretty good someday, but it's going to take awhile.

I've learned so much in the past few months, but I'm still waiting for the mouth-gasm from all-grain like I had with extract.

Having said all that, I will probably never go back to extract. I average about $25 per batch now (counting water, propane, ice, etc.), and have a hard time going back to the $40-50 / batch extract.

PLUS - I really love the control I have over the process and the ability to tweak it just a little here and there. Now if I can just get the damn fermentation process nailed down!

thataintchicken said:

Strange thing is when I make stout from extract it tastes better to me than my AG version. AG hefeweizen tastes better than extract.

Beer is beer.
Brew it and be happy. Use different techniques and recipes to get the beer YOU like.

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I have a few partial mash stouts that are absolutely fantastic. And in my dunkelweizen, I think the Wheat LME adds a flavor I can't get with grain.

I've done both and have made good beers with both methods.

Tastewise I can't tell a huge difference between an extract beer and it's all-grain counterpart.

I just figure if I'm gonna home brew and call a beer my own I want to do as much of the process as possible.

I have noticed that the all grain beers are much more clear than extract beers I have made. Clarity may or may not be an issue for you. I really don't care about clarity but it was something i noticed. I have never cold crash but simply throwing some irish moss in an extract and all-grain batch the all-grain came out clearer.

Also, I like doing all grain as someone above said for bragging rights. When i would explain extract brewing to people not familiar with the home brewing they would equate it to doing a kit or Mr. Beer no matter how you tried to explain that it was not the same lol.

I find with all grain I am able to control the color of my beer better. With LME it always seemed darker. Even with full boils and late addition of the extract.

With proper technique all three methods yield excellent beer. I felt the same way after my first all grain batch, but I was comparing it to extract beer made using a technique that had been tweaked and refined several times.

Now that I have made it through 6 or 7 all grain experiences, and made a few improvements to my methods, I am getting great quality beer. I can't say it's better than my extract beer, but definitely as good.

I do enjoy all grain brewing and have made it my default method, not saying I will never make another extract recipe. The control and flexibility of all grain brewing is a nice too.

For me AG is all about the customization - picking the malt, picking the saccharification temps, controlling the body of the beer.

I also like the thought that I'm completely utilizing my grains - how much of the subtle nuances of various specialty malts can you extract when you're only doing a 30 min grain steep?

And there are certain styles of beer that I would dare to say you cannot make in extract form. Oatmeal stout, for example. While a grain steep might get you some oaty flavor, it takes some significant time to get those thick proteins and rich fats into your beer.

I guess to sum it up, the specialty malts are where the customization is - I have no problem substituting DME for pale malt, other than the cost.

I guess it comes down to three reasons for me in order of importance.

1. I think AG is fun and enjoy the process.

2. It is difficult to find as many varieties of base malt extracts for German, English, Belgian, Scottish, etc. beers.

3. It's a little cheaper.

It's just much more fun

kanzimonson said:

For me AG is all about the customization - picking the malt, picking the saccharification temps, controlling the body of the beer.

I also like the thought that I'm completely utilizing my grains - how much of the subtle nuances of various specialty malts can you extract when you're only doing a 30 min grain steep?

And there are certain styles of beer that I would dare to say you cannot make in extract form. Oatmeal stout, for example. While a grain steep might get you some oaty flavor, it takes some significant time to get those thick proteins and rich fats into your beer.

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I will be brewing my first AG on Labor Day weekend, and I would have to agree, you cannot make a Rye beer with extract alone, it would at the very least have to be a partial mash, and if you are going to PM you might as well AG.

I live in AZ so I am lucky enough to have a climate, that although colder in the winter, will allow me to brew outdoors year round. No minus farenheit temps here!

I can see that as being one drawback for some folks who live in cold hell.

Too many people talk about good tasting extract and AG brews. After tasting my first AG batch I can now confirm that you can make just as bad of a beer with AG as extract.

lol, well that's that truth.

boredatwork said:

Too many people talk about good tasting extract and AG brews. After tasting my first AG batch I can now confirm that you can make just as bad of a beer with AG as extract.

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I don't know about that.

I think you can make MUCH worse beer with AG. Atleast you know the malting/extract houses know what they're doing.

For me, AG is all about the sheer badassness of turning a big pile of grain and acouple bags of hops into a couple of cases of awesome beer.

Big pile + couple bags = cases of awesome.

Damn straight

I like doing all grain because I can say I "created beer" vs "making beer". Plus overall, this is one of my 3 hobbies, and I happen to enjoy the process. There is something relaxing about chilling out in the garage on a saturday morning, listening to clutch, mashing some grain!

Mmmmmm, Beer and Clutch:rockin:

If you buy grain in bulk, AG is much cheaper. That's the biggest difference I can tell.

Synovia said:

I don't know about that.

I think you can make MUCH worse beer with AG. Atleast you know the malting/extract houses know what they're doing.

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Good point.

this is an easy one to answer for me...

i like all grain better because it freakin' rules and so do i :rockin:

definitely more badass to start from grain than syrup and end up with boozey goodness

Beer and Clutch, who cares what method you use. Although if you listen to Clutch while you're brewing, you can listen to MUCH more Clutch because all-grain takes longer.

I guess it depends on how much you like Clutch???

I've done both. AG is funner for me. But I still do an extract batch or two when it gets below zero outside and I don't feel like trudging through 3 feet of snow to heat the garage.

The only additional thing I can point out is hop utilization if you're not doing full volume boils with extract. The majority of extract brewers are stove top brewers and only boil 2.5 gallons or so. IPA's are way too sweet and malty done the extract way. It's just math. A full volume boil with negate any of this. Do what makes you happy. Don't worry about the "cool factor".

If you stick with all-grain, you'll find what works for you and produce some commercial grade beers as well. It's just another learning process and I'm sure you're aware that everyone on this board will gladly help out.

You can't say "from God's finger to your glass" if you use extract.

Deuce said:

I like doing all grain because I can say I "created beer" vs "making beer". Plus overall, this is one of my 3 hobbies, and I happen to enjoy the process. There is something relaxing about chilling out in the garage on a saturday morning, listening to clutch, mashing some grain!

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Do you grow your own hops? Grow and malt your own grain? Ranch your own yeast? If not then you too are making beer, you just chose to place the line to what fits your process.

All these processes can make good or bad beer, each has trade-offs. There is no "perfect for everyone" process. I don't understand why so may (vocal) AG brewers insist that their process is the best and anything else is wrong.

Not the best. The "most versatile"

DeathBrewer said:

Not the best. The "most versatile"

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Oh? Can you AG brew in under 2 hours like a steep + extract?

* Main Entry: ver·sa·tile
* Pronunciation: \ˈvər-sə-təl, especially British -ˌtī(-&#601l\
* Function: adjective
* Etymology: French or Latin; French, from Latin versatilis turning easily, from versare to turn, frequentative of vertere
* Date: 1605

1 : changing or fluctuating readily : variable <a versatile disposition>
2 : embracing a variety of subjects, fields, or skills; also : turning with ease from one thing to another
3 a (1) : capable of turning forward or backward : reversible <a versatile toe of a bird> (2) : capable of moving laterally and up and down <versatile antennae> b of an anther : having the filaments attached at or near the middle so as to swing freely
4 : having many uses or applications <versatile building material>

frogfree said:

* Main Entry: ver·sa·tile
* Pronunciation: \&#712;v&#601;r-s&#601;-t&#601;l, especially British -&#716;t&#299;(-&#601l\
* Function: adjective
* Etymology: French or Latin; French, from Latin versatilis turning easily, from versare to turn, frequentative of vertere
* Date: 1605

1 : changing or fluctuating readily : variable <a versatile disposition>
2 : embracing a variety of subjects, fields, or skills; also : turning with ease from one thing to another
3 a (1) : capable of turning forward or backward : reversible <a versatile toe of a bird> (2) : capable of moving laterally and up and down <versatile antennae> b of an anther : having the filaments attached at or near the middle so as to swing freely
4 : having many uses or applications <versatile building material>

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If time is the biggest constraint then AG is not very versatile. Thank you for helping illustrate my point.

What does versatility have to do with time?

carl spakler said:

If time is the biggest constraint then AG is not very versatile. Thank you for helping illustrate my point.

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If time is a constraint AG may not doable at all. But regardless of whether you can do an AG brew in 4 hours or 12 hours, it doesn't change what you can brew with it.

Time does not affect the versatility of AG at all.

I sometimes spend 7 hours on partial mash batches because I'm taking my time and I have a slow run-off from the grains I use, particularly with rye (something you cannot use when steeping.)

I can do a 5 gallon all-grain batch in under 4 hours if I'm on top of my game.

bernerbrau said:

If time is a constraint AG may not doable at all. But regardless of whether you can do an AG brew in 4 hours or 12 hours, it doesn't change what you can brew with it.

Time does not affect the versatility of AG at all.

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In your definition of versatile. To me being able to brew in less time if you choose is a component of versatility. If you simply can't brew AG in under ~2.5 hours it isn't very versatile is it?


There simply is no best brewing process. End of story. They ALL have trade offs.

carl spakler said:

In your definition of versatile. To me being able to brew in less time if you choose is a component of versatility. If you simply can't brew AG in under ~2.5 hours it isn't very versatile is it?

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Because my definition of versatile is the real one and doesn't include the time something takes. Time can be a tradeoff for versatility but it is not a factor in determining versatility.

It's like you're arguing that the variety of beers you can produce with AG is less than with extract, because AG takes longer. This is simply not true.

carl spakler said:

There simply is no best brewing process. End of story. They ALL have trade offs.

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Hey man, nobody is arguing that. You're arguing that AG is less versatile because it takes longer.

Huh...I'd like to see what you definition of versatility is...seeing as all of the definitions above have nothing to do with time.

I can make a partial mash batch in 2.5 hours...does that count? I'm still using grains I otherwise couldn't steep, so I have more versatility in what I can make.

DeathBrewer said:

Huh...I'd like to see what you definition of versatility is...

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My guess is that something is not versatile if it takes one second over 2.5 hours.

And for the record my all-grain brews stomp the piss out of my extract batches, and their way cheaper.