HELP: 10' 3/16 line and 3" of foam

OK, so I installed the new 3/16 lines at 10' long and have 10psi on the kegs and get 3 inches of foam. My kegerator is a chest freezer set at 42°F. The thermocouple is at mid height within the 4 kegs. The beer is great but I am still trying to get down to 1/2 - 3/4 inches of foam. Could it be temperature stratification within the chest freezer? Maybe it is not 42° at the collar where the shanks are? My pour seems to be as follows: a couple of ounces of beer, followed by 3" of foam, them a good pour to the top of glass. The second pour is similar. Any ideas?

42 (or the real temp ) may be the issue. I poured a beer a few minutes ago at 9 psi and 38 degrees and 5 ft and there was no head at all.

Did you prime or quick force carb?

set it & forget it ~10psi

If you're sure it's not overcarbed, drop the temp like badbrew mentioned.

Get a $5 refrigerator thermometer and place it in various locations.

been at 10psi for months, not overcarbed.
could it be newness of the lines?

I've noticed that happening with warm glasses. Chill the glasses and it will help.

Another issue that it sounds like is the air gap that forms in the line between the tap and keg. If the line is lower than the keg it will form at the keg. There is a co2 pocket that the keg beer hits as it pushes the beer in the line through. Elevate the line and air will come out first and not mix with the new beer.

I agree with all of the above but it also sounds like you have too much line. With that height and pressure you should be able to run much shorter lines. 3/16" vinyl tubing should give about 3psi of restriction per foot, and lift gives about R (restriction in psi) = 0.5 L (lift in feet). The beer that is stored in the lines will always lose some CO2, and I have found that too much line will give you a glass or two of foam. The method I use is figure out your target head pressure in the keg add 2psi to it and make that your target restriction, your lift will usually be fixed so it's up to line diameter and length to provide the rest. Then the amount of head will then be determined by the carbonation level of your beer, the glass, and how you fill the glass.

To summarize ((HP + 2) - R) / 3 = LL

Where R is restriction from lift (R = 0.5 L (lift in feet)), L (lift) is the distance from the middle of the keg to the taps, HP is head pressure, and LL is line length in feet. This can also be back solved for any other variable you desire if changing line lengths is undesirable or a pain in the @$$.

Absolutely not. 3psi per foot is the highest estimate I've seen. 2.5 or 2 is commonly quoted. In any case, longer lines wouldn't cause foaming but rather slow pours. If the shanks and faucet are warm, the best thing to do is pour 1 oz, shoot it, then fill the glass.

When I first put my system together I had 12 feet of line per tap, and had the same problem of 2-3" of head, I cut the lines down to 4' and the problem went away.

RTL said:

When I first put my system together I had 12 feet of line per tap, and had the same problem of 2-3" of head, I cut the lines down to 4' and the problem went away.

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That makes you the first person to ever claim shortening his lines resolved a foam problem. Congrats!

Cheers!

Well I noticed there was a lot of foam and there were a lot of air pockets in the lines and the faucet would coughs and sputter out the beer so I shortened them.

Eisendrath said:

Could it be temperature stratification within the chest freezer?

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Yes. Do you see any pockets of gas forming in the lines?

DustjunkieScott said:

Another issue that it sounds like is the air gap that forms in the line between the tap and keg.

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In a properly set up system there shouldn't be gas pockets forming in the lines, regardless of how the lines are run.

RTL said:

I agree with all of the above but it also sounds like you have too much line. With that height and pressure you should be able to run much shorter lines. 3/16" vinyl tubing should give about 3psi of restriction per foot, and lift gives about R (restriction in psi) = 0.5 L (lift in feet). The beer that is stored in the lines will always lose some CO2, and I have found that too much line will give you a glass or two of foam. The method I use is figure out your target head pressure in the keg add 2psi to it and make that your target restriction, your lift will usually be fixed so it's up to line diameter and length to provide the rest. Then the amount of head will then be determined by the carbonation level of your beer, the glass, and how you fill the glass.

To summarize ((HP + 2) - R) / 3 = LL

Where R is restriction from lift (R = 0.5 L (lift in feet)), L (lift) is the distance from the middle of the keg to the taps, HP is head pressure, and LL is line length in feet. This can also be back solved for any other variable you desire if changing line lengths is undesirable or a pain in the @$$.

Click to expand...

Those are just estimated figures, and actual resistance varies a lot depending on brand and even batch run of the line. Like Bobby said, most calculators use 2-2.5 psi/ft for 3/16" line, which I've found to be pretty generous. Most of the lines I've tested had actual resistance closer to 1-1.5 psi/ft. Either way, longer lines aren't going to cause foam.

RTL said:

Well I noticed there was a lot of foam and there were a lot of air pockets in the lines and the faucet would coughs and sputter out the beer so I shortened them.

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Gas pockets forming in the lines is indicative of other problems. You might have had a lot of temperature stratification in your fridge/freezer, and if the lines weren't coiled horizontally, this could have been the cause. It also could have been that the beer was carbed slightly more than the level corresponding with your serving pressure. In any case, shortening your lines isn't what resolved your issue, it was merely coincidental.

If longer lines caused foam, I'd be in trouble with my 18' lines.

Line : is completely above the level of the kegs. Taps are about a foot above the tops of the kegs. When I look at the 5 loops of line as sit sits several hours after the last pour I see lots of CO2 pockets at the top of each loop. Could this cause the foam? It seems like it exits the faucet at the time that the foam builds. These coils are vertical but I saw the same with my old lines that were 1/4" and horisontal.

Temps: My faucets/shanks are probably near room temp seeing they don't sweat in the summer unless actively being poured. I set a thermometer across two shanks inside the kegerator. It read 55° when the temp between the kegs is 42°. The temp in the area of the line loops is at 45°. I set it to 38° just now.

Glass: from the freezer, same as above. Room temp, same. Plastic double walled 20oz that I use for the evening brew, same. I'll try refridgerator next.

Pressure: I seem to get a nice slowish pour. So I believve the ~10psi on the regulator gage.

Maybe the CO2 buildup in the lines causes an instantanious quick flow of the beer as it exits the faucet and that pulsating quick, slow, quick, slow as each loop empties out it's CO2 causes the foam??

Eisendrath said:

When I look at the 5 loops of line as sit sits several hours after the last pour I see lots of CO2 pockets at the top of each loop. Could this cause the foam?

Maybe the CO2 buildup in the lines causes an instantanious quick flow of the beer as it exits the faucet and that pulsating quick, slow, quick, slow as each loop empties out it's CO2 causes the foam??

Click to expand...

Yep, the pockets of gas in the lines are the cause of the foam. Most likely reason they're forming is the temperature stratification you've found. A muffin fan might be a cheap and easy fix. Coiling the lines horizontally might help some too, but if you solve the temperature issue you should be able to orient them however you want.

JuanMoore said:

Yep, the pockets of gas in the lines are the cause of the foam. Most likely reason they're forming is the temperature stratification you've found. A muffin fan might be a cheap and easy fix. Coiling the lines horizontally might help some too, but if you solve the temperature issue you should be able to orient them however you want.

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Sounds like tomorrows project. Should it run all the time or just with the compressor?

Thanks Juan that makes sense and is more helpful than saying "absolutely not".