Yeast Washing Illustrated

This may have already been covered, but I am still slowly but surely making my way through the 73 pages of posts in this thread. But what yeast source should I use? Can you do this from the primary? Or do you need to rack to a secondary and collect the yeast that drops out there?

It can be done from primary, that is how I do it.

I think yeast form secondary will be cleaner, but also may be the less flocculent yeast. I believe it is discussed somewhere in here.

winvarin said:

This may have already been covered, but I am still slowly but surely making my way through the 73 pages of posts in this thread. But what yeast source should I use? Can you do this from the primary? Or do you need to rack to a secondary and collect the yeast that drops out there?

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From Google.com copy/paste what's below in to the search field. It'll give you lots of threads on this very subject:

harvest yeast from primary or secondary site:http://www.homebrewtalk.com

I did it for my first time last weekend and I did it from the primary. Lots of opinions on this I'm sure.

One other thing occurs to me. Everybody talks about making a starter. But what if the yeast is fresh and you plan to "double pitch"? Let's say, for instance that I harvested 4 pint jars of yeast from washing and planned on using within a month (not likely a freshness problem as some on this thread have reported success with 12 month old washed yeast).

I've "double pitched" White Labs vials in a pinch before when I didn't have time to make a starter. Would the same apply here? If you were willing to use half your harvested supply for a batch, couldn't you decant and pitch two mason jars? The assumption, and I know it's a big one) is that your yeast was viable. Might be worth the risk on a smaller beer (1.055 or less)

The starter assures viability.

Your mason jars will probably be ok

Just curious what others are experiencing when using washed yeast. Everytime I use it, I get wicked crazy fermentations. I get airlock activity in usually 4 hours and the fermentation is fast and furious, usually wrapping up activity within 2 days. Now for sake of clarification: 1. I've used yeast that has been stored for as long as 6 months. 2. I always make a 1L starter. 3. Doesn't matter which strain of yeast. 4. I always use starters as well for new smack packs, but the smack pack fermentations are much slower to start and drag on for about 5 days.

I was just curious if anyone is seeing this same trend?

I've got a bunch of washed yeast but have only used it once. I built up a 1L starter of Trappist High Gravity in two days and when I pitched it, it took off within hours fast and furious.

BigB said:

Just curious what others are experiencing when using washed yeast. Everytime I use it, I get wicked crazy fermentations. I get airlock activity in usually 4 hours and the fermentation is fast and furious, usually wrapping up activity within 2 days. Now for sake of clarification: 1. I've used yeast that has been stored for as long as 6 months. 2. I always make a 1L starter. 3. Doesn't matter which strain of yeast. 4. I always use starters as well for new smack packs, but the smack pack fermentations are much slower to start and drag on for about 5 days.

I was just curious if anyone is seeing this same trend?

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I just used my washed yeast from a Blonde Ale for my Pale Ale. I split it into two jars. It was refrigerated for about 3 weeks. I made a starter with one of the jars and my Pale Ale fermentation took off quicker than any batch I have ever done. It blew the air lock last night. It didn't make a huge mess but needless to say, I now have a blow off tube. It's been fermenting at 68˚ F for the past 2 days and still going strong. Maybe I should have split the yeast cake into more batches.

So I did this once about a year ago and it worked fine. I decided to try it again. The problem I had was I didn't reread the process so I may have screwed up. I did it all right up till where you pour the separated yeast in to the jars. I had in my mind that I wanted all of the thick stuff on the bottom so I poured off all the light stuff and filled my jars with the sludge on the bottom. Should I just scrap this whole batch and pour them out?

Well, I am certainly no expert on this, but it would seem that all you got would be trub and the less than desireable sickly yeast...all the good yeast were in suspension and poured off. I wouldn't risk a batch with what you kept.:cross:

How long will these stay viable in the frig?

I've used one after 6 months and thought the yeast were better than a much newer smack pack. I understand Bernie (the OP) has used them after a year.

That's what I was thinking. And then I was reading the slanting yeast thread, where you freeze the yeast and the best claim it could make was that it stored yeast up to a year. You can only draw two conclusions from this: 1) The OP of the slanting yeast thread underestimated the viability of frozen yeast or 2) the special equipment needed for "slanting yeast" is not worth the investment when compared with the viability of refrigerated yeast. It seems opinion 2 is more likely.

aMillionDreams said:

That's what I was thinking. And then I was reading the slanting yeast thread, where you freeze the yeast and the best claim it could make was that it stored yeast up to a year. You can only draw two conclusions from this: 1) The OP of the slanting yeast thread underestimated the viability of frozen yeast or 2) the special equipment need for "slanting yeast" is not worth the investment when compared with the viability of refrigerated yeast. It seems opinion 2 is more likely.

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Well to be fair, there are some other benefits to yeast slanting, although I don't use the technique. But, with slanting, 1) you can get LOTS of individual slants in much smaller packages; 2) The yeast you slant is usually straight from the vial/smack pack and hasn't mutated, 3) Coming from a fresh vial, you have no trub or other waste products, and 4) you are using such a minute amount to make the slants, that you can still use the vial/smack pack to ferment a batch. I'm sure there are more pros and cons to both sides, but it is really a matter of preference and what works best for the individual brewer.

The problem I see with this is that you don't know how much yeast you have in each mason jar. Depending on how high your original gravity was, won't you have a different amount of yeast in the yeast cake for each beer?

Plus, how much yeast will be in each mason jar? If Mr. Malty tells me I need 6 white labs vials of yeast, does that mean 4 mason jars of washed yeast isn't enough or is one mason jar equal to several white labs vials? And if Mr. Malty said I needed 6 vials but I only used one vial originally, does that mean my yeast multiplied to an amount equal to 6 vials and that's how much yeast is sitting in my yeast cake, so if I washed my yeast into 4 mason jars, I'd have slightly over one vial's worth of yeast per jar?

If someone knows the answers to these questions, please let me know!

Thanks
-Chris

jimmypop13 said:

The problem I see with this is that you don't know how much yeast you have in each mason jar.

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It doesn't matter how much yeast is in each mason jar. When you pitch the mason jar's contents into a starter, the yeast will multiply up to an appropriate level for the size of the starter.

jimmypop13 said:

The problem I see with this is that you don't know how much yeast you have in each mason jar. Depending on how high your original gravity was, won't you have a different amount of yeast in the yeast cake for each beer?

Plus, how much yeast will be in each mason jar? If Mr. Malty tells me I need 6 white labs vials of yeast, does that mean 4 mason jars of washed yeast isn't enough or is one mason jar equal to several white labs vials? And if Mr. Malty said I needed 6 vials but I only used one vial originally, does that mean my yeast multiplied to an amount equal to 6 vials and that's how much yeast is sitting in my yeast cake, so if I washed my yeast into 4 mason jars, I'd have slightly over one vial's worth of yeast per jar?

If someone knows the answers to these questions, please let me know!

Thanks
-Chris

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Chris, you are absolutely right... we really don't know how much "good" yeast is in a mason jar. But think about it.... How do you know how much "good" yeast is in a smack pack? What I do know is that I get at least as much yeast in a wash jar as I do in a smack pack. I also know that my fermentations and starters are much better and more vibrant with 6 month old washed yeast vs.2 month old smack packs. So my conservative philosophy.. right or wrong.. is that I consider one jar of washed yeast to be equal to one vial/smack pack of commericial yeast.

BigB said:

Chris, you are absolutely right... we really don't know how much "good" yeast is in a mason jar. But think about it.... How do you know how much "good" yeast is in a smack pack? What I do know is that I get at least as much yeast in a wash jar as I do in a smack pack. I also know that my fermentations and starters are much better and more vibrant with 6 month old washed yeast vs.2 month old smack packs. So my conservative philosophy.. right or wrong.. is that I consider one jar of washed yeast to be equal to one vial/smack pack of commericial yeast.

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I like your thinking. I normally make a gallon starter with a white labs vial or smack pack, and shake it up every time I'm in the kitchen. From what I recall, the chart in the Brewing Classic Styles book says this equals between 2.5-3 vials, which is good for ales but normally lagers call for a bit more yeast.

I like the idea of yeast washing because it will save me some money, and like you said, your yeast are starting a lot quicker than before so that's definitely a plus too. But I guess I was hoping someone would say one jar equals like 5-10 vials/smack-packs and I'd never have to make a starter again! lol. Cuz sometimes I just wanna brew spur of the moment but I can't because I have to wait 3-5 days to make the starter and cold crash it so I can easily decant the liquid.

In those moments, I guess I just need to be stocked up with s-05 or notty
Too bad I can't be more like my roommate and believe the smack-pack when it says it will ferment 5 gallons. Well I know it will, but the flavor difference is noticeable enough that I HAVE to make a starter for mine!

Thanks for the help

jimmypop13 said:

the problem i see with this is that you don't know how much yeast you have in each mason jar. Depending on how high your original gravity was, won't you have a different amount of yeast in the yeast cake for each beer?

Plus, how much yeast will be in each mason jar? If mr. Malty tells me i need 6 white labs vials of yeast, does that mean 4 mason jars of washed yeast isn't enough or is one mason jar equal to several white labs vials? And if mr. Malty said i needed 6 vials but i only used one vial originally, does that mean my yeast multiplied to an amount equal to 6 vials and that's how much yeast is sitting in my yeast cake, so if i washed my yeast into 4 mason jars, i'd have slightly over one vial's worth of yeast per jar?

If someone knows the answers to these questions, please let me know!

Thanks
-chris

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rdwhahb

If you consider how thick some of the yeast layers are in those mason jars, it certainly looks more than what one gets in a Wyeast smack pack. But looks can be deceiving -- is there any way to estimate how much yeast is there? With such a thick sludge of yeast, is a starter really necessary? Isnt this your starter, essentially?

Naked_Eskimo said:

If you consider how thick some of the yeast layers are in those mason jars, it certainly looks more than what one gets in a Wyeast smack pack. But looks can be deceiving -- is there any way to estimate how much yeast is there? With such a thick sludge of yeast, is a starter really necessary? Isnt this your starter, essentially?

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Sure, you could warm up the yeast jar, measure the total amount of slurry collected. Then take a measured sample of that and place it under a microscope. Then, count the number of active yeast cells for a specifed area and multiply that amount by a ratio of your total collected slurry. Not trying to be a smart azz, but lets face it: there are so many variable such as the amount of slurry collected, the percentage of trub vs cells, the number of viable cells, the size of the jar, the age of the cells, etc, etc, that one persons estimate simply may not apply in a general sense.

The starter reactivates the yeast and gets them ready for the party to come. Also, it verifies that your collected yeast are good and awake and it gives them an opportunity to multiply to be sure to get the job done. IMHO, these jars are NOT a substitute for a starter. They are nothing more than a vial of yeast.

And none of these questions about how many yeast cells do you have in the slurry matter if you make a reasonably sized starter.

Pappers said:

And none of these questions about how many yeast cells do you have in the slurry matter if you make a reasonably sized starter.

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Well said. Simple and to the point.

But, a 1L starter beginning with a mason jar containing 10billion cells and a 1L starter with a mason jar containing 500billion cells are going to give you two very different starters in terms of cell count and activity, aren't they?

Naked_Eskimo said:

But, a 1L starter beginning with a mason jar containing 10billion cells and a 1L starter with a mason jar containing 500billion cells are going to give you two very different starters in terms of cell count and activity, aren't they?

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Yes, my calculator says that one has 50x the cell count.

Naked_Eskimo said:

But, a 1L starter beginning with a mason jar containing 10billion cells and a 1L starter with a mason jar containing 500billion cells are going to give you two very different starters in terms of cell count and activity, aren't they?

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Sure, just as two different smack packs will give you two different starters. One may have x number of cells where the other may have y number. As has been stated, there is simply no way to say for sure what YOU would collect. We do this technique as HOME brewers. We do not have specialized lab equipment to give reasonably consistent samples from batch to batch. It really boils down to trial and error. You have to try it for yourself, with your equipment, in your conditions, with your batches. Once you try a few and ferment a few batches with them, you will get a feel for how well your technique is. In my home, I have consistently gotten better results out of one mason jar than I have with a new smack pack. Therefore, I conservatively just round down and guesstimate that one mason jar of mine is equal to one fresh smack pack. Do I know for sure what my pitching rate is? No. I do know that I get consistently good beer. And since I am not selling the stuff, to me that is good enough.

So here's what I've got. I used Wyeast 1098 Brit Ale on a brewhouse kit, so there were no particles of any kind since this is a wort in a bag kit.

I've shaken it and let it settle twice and this is how it comes out. A very light layer on the bottom, a mixed brownish swirled with light stuff layer in the middle, and a very thin light layer on top. It's not exactly like the rest of the photos I've seen.

I'm thinking I'll just swirl it all up and not worry about the separate layers. The layer on the bottom is only 3/16" thick so if that's the only yeast there's not a lot of it. And i'm not sure why it would settle out first as the trub is supposed to do that. This is from a 5 gallon batch.

If anyone has any input I would be glad to hear it.

After thinking about this, I realized that I racked to secondary too early and there should be a ton of yeast in the secondary that is viable. So I will harvest that, mix it with what I've got and see what I get.

I just tried this on an IPA. Seems to have worked fine. I have a layer of trub under my yeast layer though. Should I pour it off in another jar, and try to leave the trub behind. Or should I just not worry about it. I'm leaning toward not worrying about it, and just leaving as much trub behind as I can when I make my starter. Like I said this is my first go at this though. I have a decent sized yeast layer (1/8" maybe?). The trub is prob about twice the size of the yeast layer.

xoltri said:

After thinking about this, I realized that I racked to secondary too early and there should be a ton of yeast in the secondary that is viable. So I will harvest that, mix it with what I've got and see what I get.

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Well I did this and all I got was more of the same. It almost seems like the yeast is stuck in white clumps like cheese curds and they sink to the bottom first. Does this make sense? Is the white stuff yeast and the brownish stuff not yeast?

I always regain my yeast in the secondary, I use a week of primary and two secondary, and it is always in good condition after three weeks.

xoltri said:

Well I did this and all I got was more of the same. It almost seems like the yeast is stuck in white clumps like cheese curds and they sink to the bottom first. Does this make sense? Is the white stuff yeast and the brownish stuff not yeast?

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It sounds like you need to shake it more vigorously to break up the clumps. The yeast is a very light cream color. Anything darker is spent yeast and/or trub and hops.

Well I guess my 1098 British Ale yeast has very high flocculation. It is not like the photos in this thread, it definitely sinks to the bottom first and makes a thick almost honey like consistency paste that sticks together quite aggressively.

I was able to pour the darker trub off of the top of it quite easily and I believe I'm left with mostly light colored yeast, and quite a bit of it actually. I guess we'll find out...I'll make a starter out of it to see how it does.

My White Labs American Ale Blend was clumpy too. It seemed I would shake shake shake and still have clumps. I was able to salvage a lot of it by shaking and as soon as the yeast settled, pour off the dark liquid with the trub still floating. Did this a few times with fresh water until it was clean enough for me.

I haven’t tested the frozen stash yet, I hope it is good. After adding the glycol I shook the smaller bottles real good. I just trusted the Glycol got around the cells enough to prevent damage. Maybe next batch I’ll test it.

So here's what I was left with after pouring off the dark trub on top of the yeast.



With this I got 6 125ml jars that have about 75ml of good thick yeast in them (after settling) not including the small band of trub that is still on it.

I proofed one with sugar and it came to life super fast. Looks like it worked!

I just followed these instructions a week or so back with some NW Ale yeast (Wy1332). Pretty simple procedure, and I ended up with 4 jars of washed yeast.



I already made a starter with one of them over the past weekend, and it took off like a rocket. I used it in for my Graff, and fermentation started within about 8 hours.

Many thanks to Bernie Brewer for the great walk-through!

xoltri said:

I proofed one with sugar and it came to life super fast. Looks like it worked!

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Sugar bad. DME good.

platypotamus said:

I just followed these instructions a week or so back with some NW Ale yeast (Wy1332). Pretty simple procedure, and I ended up with 4 jars of washed yeast.



I already made a starter with one of them over the past weekend, and it took off like a rocket. I used it in for my Graff, and fermentation started within about 8 hours.

Many thanks to Bernie Brewer for the great walk-through!

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Your yeast farming skills are complete, young Skywalker.

Starderup said:

Sugar bad. DME good.

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Yeah I tossed it. I had 6 so I had enough to waste one on a test.