No Heat from Element

Building first electric system and almost finished. Ran a test and all works well except the heating element does not get hot (I'm told that's important...). I've tested tested the leads on the element and I am getting 115V on each one. Do I have a faulty element? I purchased a Camco 02963 5500W 240V from Amazon. I've hesitated touching the multi-meter to both hot leads at the same time, will this read 230V or will I just fry my meter? So far I've touched one hot lead with the ground to get the 115V. I've also verified the 3-prong outlet on my control panel for the element is reading correctly.

Thanks in advance for your help.

You will not fry your meter by touching both leads to both hot lines on your element. As a matter of fact, that's how you're going to have to do it to tell if you actually have 240VAC at your element. Just make sure your multimeter is set to read V AC.

OK, I tested the contacts on the element and they read 0. I test the outlet and get 230. Since I don't get anything on the other end I am left with the conclusion the cable is bad. Will pick up another at hardware store tomorrow and try again.

Just out of curiosity (and for your safety) is that outlet protected by a GFCI breaker? Also, what are you using to control the power to the element?

I put a GFCI breaker in the panel which isn't far away. The standard PID to SSR with a contactor to turn it on and off. Based on one of PJ diagrams.

You tell if the cable is bad by measuring continuity at both ends. With the cable unplugged from your control panel measure each wire at the terminal of the element and at the tab in the plug. You should measure something like 0.1 ohms. If you don't then you know which wire in the cable is bad. Check your crimp connections. You may be able to fix it without buying a whole new cable. If you installed the plug in the other end check those connections too.

If you measure 115V from each lead to the neutral lead but measure 0V between the two hot leads then you probably have them both hooked up to the same side of the supply.

marx3006 said:

I put a GFCI breaker in the panel which isn't far away. The standard PID to SSR with a contactor to turn it on and off. Based on one of PJ diagrams.

Click to expand...

Which diagram are you using?

Help us help you.

P-J said:

Which diagram are you using?

Help us help you.

Click to expand...

I am using this diagram: http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/Auberin-wiring1-a4-5500w-BIAB-30d6.jpg

At work right now but when I get home I will retrace all wires and check them again. I'm generally very cautious and particular but have been know to make mistakes (just ask my wife...).

Can you post a picture of the inside of your controller? I'm interested in how you have the contactor wired.

Also: The contactor has a coil voltage of 120V - correct?

P-J

ChuckO said:

If you measure 115V from each lead to the neutral lead but measure 0V between the two hot leads then you probably have them both hooked up to the same side of the supply.

Click to expand...

Probably?

One could be hot and the other to nothing.

the part that bumps me is 115VAC no load. I'm used to seeing a little over 120.

Wynne-R said:

One could be hot and the other to nothing.

Click to expand...

Then he wouldn't see 115 from that line to neutral.

marx3006 said:

OK, I tested the contacts on the element and they read 0. I test the outlet and get 230. Since I don't get anything on the other end I am left with the conclusion the cable is bad. Will pick up another at hardware store tomorrow and try again.

Click to expand...

May be a silly question, but what are your PID settings? Does the light indicating "element on" from the PID light up?

I had the same problem since my PID was set to "cooling". The wiring was fine, and i could measure input coltage,I just couldn't get any heat. Once I input the correct settings in the PID I got voltage at the element.

You’re imagining a completely different circuit, than I am. We’re measuring at the load, aren’t we? If you apply 115VAC to one side and there’s no current flow, there’s 115VAC everywhere.

He’s measured 230 at the mains, so either it’s wired wrong, as you suggest, or there’s a bad connection, the possibility you left out.

So you're getting 115 to neutral from both hot lines at the outlet, and 230 between the two hots at the outlet? If so, you know your outlet is wired correctly at least. Test the continuity of your cable as previously suggested - set your multimeter to read Ohms, and with the cable unplugged touch one lead to one of the tabs on the plug end, and touch the other lead to each of the 3 wire ends on the element end. Depending on if your meter is digital or analog, you will get different readings, but you should see 2 of the wires read the same (0 or inifinity, IE no connectivity) and one of the wries should read something different, like 0.1ohms or somewhere in there, showing that there is connectivity. Do this for all 3 wires in your cord, and that SHOULD get you to where you need to be.

Clear as mud, right?
-Kevin

OK, I really appreciate everyone's input. Here's where I am: yes, when testing at the outlet I get 230 so I disconnected the wires from the element and tested them and got the same 230 so all is good up to the element. Ran out of time last night to do more (kids family fun night...at pre-school, jealous?). I am left with the idea of a bad element, I'm guessing I can test it for continuity like the cable. Since they are fairly inexpensive on Amazon I can always order another just surprised if it is indeed faulty.

marx3006 said:

OK, I really appreciate everyone's input. .....

Click to expand...

...and the requested picture of your circuits, is that coming?

Here's a shot of the inside of the control panel, at least the important parts. Keep in mind that I have tested the ends of the 3-prong cord coming from the control box and I am getting 115V on each hot but no love when connected to the heating element. The second pic is a second element I hooked up for testing tonight (don't judge the hokey set-up was just a test, result was the same, no go).

It appears that the wiring inside your controller is ok.

Next step is to disconnect power (unplug your rig so there is no power input). Next step is to use your ohm meter and test continuity between the red and blue wires on the element outlet inside the controller and the connection to the element. What you are doing is confirming that 'line1 & line2' are actually being delivered to the element terminals and not one of the terminals and ground.

I suspect that this is not the case.

Forgive me if I'm missing it in all this but what is the resistance of the element (between the two screws with nothing connected to them)?

Do you have access to anything that runs off 230v - a light, anything you can use to test? It's possible that your element is bad, but I haven't heard too many stories of that happening. I think P-J is on the money - you've got some issue with a criss-cross in your wiring. Plugging in a different 230v device would confirm whether or not it was the element.
-Kevin

I had the same problem with this last weekend and still haven't successfully heated my element. But i think the problem with mine is that when i wired it up one or two of the the hot wires came disconnected when trying to rig it up. I have a inline connection on its way to solve the problem, hopefully. If not i will be doing all the tests this weekend while im not brewing as planned.

Not sure I'm going to have much time to do testing until the weekend. Week nights are pretty crazy so be patient with me and I will post continuity and resistance results. Unfortunately the other other thing I have that's 240v is the dryer upstairs and I would prefer not to haul to the basement for testing. I'll see if I can find a light I can rig up (I do work for a building supply company).

Finally had some time tonight to do more testing. The element, contact and wiring all passed so I decided to do things a more manual way and started "cutting out pieces" I found that when I remove the SSR from the loop and have power go straight to the contactor, EUREKA it works. This is an Amico SSR from Amazon. Now that the SSR isn't carrying any load I tried testing continuity. I turned up the target temp on the PID and verified DC voltage was going to the SSR but no continuity on the "OUT" terminals. If it was "on" I should get a reading, correct, even if there is no power connected? Is the consensus the SSR is bad and I should replace? Not sure what other testing I can conduct on the SSR.

Do you have a link and a data sheet for the SSR? It might be the wrong type or it could be defective.

marx3006 said:

Now that the SSR isn't carrying any load I tried testing continuity. I turned up the target temp on the PID and verified DC voltage was going to the SSR but no continuity on the "OUT" terminals. If it was "on" I should get a reading, correct, even if there is no power connected?

Click to expand...

No, probably not. These things are 4 layer devices and you must put enough voltage across them to kick carriers up into the 'conduction bands' before any current will flow. Go to the hardware store and buy a couple of those festoon light things - a socket with two wires coming out of it. Put 110 volt bulbs of equal wattage in them, wire them in series and connect to the SSR and line. If triggering the SSR doesn't light the bulbs then it is bad. But from the evidence it seems pretty certain that that is the case.

And in conclusion...bad SSR. For anyone building a new rig don't make my mistake, buy the SSR from Auberins as so many people on this forum have recommended. Not worth the couple dollars savings getting the Amico model from Amazon, lesson learned.

Testing is going well today though I am noticing the PID isn't keeping the temperature close to the target. Just now it creeped up 5 degrees above target. Have not done auto-tune yet, will try that next. Going to be optimistic and get a starter going for some weekend brewing!!

Mine was a switched wire to a dead terminal on my element out plug. But fixed it and test brewed last weekend.

Worked great with no major problems. Little over shooting but that was fixed by turning the element off for a minute.