bagpiperjosh
Well-Known Member
Just finished my e brewery panel and was testing everything out and i noticed when i used the estop, the 1 amp fast blow fuse i used as per a pj diagram blew. Is that normal or did i screw something up?
E stop fuse blows
- Thread starter bagpiperjosh
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kpr121
Well-Known Member
Does the GFCI trip? Sounds odd, since most GFCIs are set to trip the circuit at 0.06 amps or something like that....
bagpiperjosh
Well-Known Member
kpr121 said:
No. Just the inline fuse blows
kpr121
Well-Known Member
That’s definitely not a good sign then, you’ve got something going wrong there. The whole point of the E-Stop is to let a little bit of current out of the system and into ground, which the GFCI sees as a current lost and trips.
Do you have a wiring diagram that you used?
Do you have a wiring diagram that you used?
bagpiperjosh
Well-Known Member
I dont know wtf im saying . Yea the gfi breaker tripped. Sorry brain fart
kpr121
Well-Known Member
Well that is a little better, but the GFCI shouldn’t let more than 1 amp escape the circuit through ground. Think if your body was that conveyance of electricity, you could die.
This question may sound stupid, but are you sure you have a 1 amp fuse and not a 1 mA (milli-amp) fuse?
This question may sound stupid, but are you sure you have a 1 amp fuse and not a 1 mA (milli-amp) fuse?
bagpiperjosh
Well-Known Member
kpr121 said:
Pretty sure. Ill double check the bag when i get home and find it
bagpiperjosh
Well-Known Member
yes it is a 1 amp fast blow 240 volt fuse
You should have hot-resistor-fuse-estop switch-ground. Any order works between hot and ground.
The fuse is redundant and potentially unsafe for a safety circuit IMO. You may have trouble with your GFCI breaker if it is tripping but still blowing a 1A fuse. The GFCI should trip long before you should be able to blow the fuse.
The fuse is redundant and potentially unsafe for a safety circuit IMO. You may have trouble with your GFCI breaker if it is tripping but still blowing a 1A fuse. The GFCI should trip long before you should be able to blow the fuse.
bagpiperjosh
Well-Known Member
no, that may be my problem, but every resistor is see has a tiny little wire on each end, seemed too small for 120v.. anyone have a diagram of how to wire that properly? or an actual pic... that would be better for me to understand
bagpiperjosh said:
Without asking the same question, I was planning in soldering.
I soldered mine.
I never understood the fuse either. What's it meant to protect?
It's definitely blowing because there is a direct short to ground. I'm wondering how old your GFCI breaker is, because even the really old GFCI's(class B) are supposed to trip at 20mA. At a minimum, you need the 2K of resistance shown in PJ's diagram. Personally, I omitted the fuse because I don't like the idea of my E-stop not working when I need it to work because of a blown fuse that didn't get replaced. If your GFCI response time is slow I would also consider getting something more along the lines of a 2Kohm 10Watt resistor, which is less inclined to fail in the event your GFCI is slow responding. The reason the 1K 1W resistors are suggested is because they're readily available at Radio Shack, but if you have a little time and buy a couple backups, I'd recommend the 2K 10W wire-wound resistor and omit the fuse. I've talked about this with lshiavo before and we pretty much are on the same page.
iijakii
Well-Known Member
Lol you need the resistor. Of course the fuse is blowing. You'll have to solder it.
bagpiperjosh
Well-Known Member
I understand why the resistor is needed now, but why put the fuse and resistors in there for the e-stop in the first place? It seems sorta pointless
kpr121
Well-Known Member
Yeah to be completely honest, I did without the fuse AND the resistor. The E-stop makes direct connection to ground when pressed in my system.
I figured in the time of a catastrophic event I dont want to be trusting a 10 cent Radioshack part saving my life.
Now I guess you could argue the point that if the GFCI is faulty, it would send infinite amps through that circuit until the breaker broke, but I dont plan to use this E-Stop ever unless it is a complete emergency event. I can test the GFCI at the spa panel on occasion if I am leary about it's adequacy.
I figured in the time of a catastrophic event I dont want to be trusting a 10 cent Radioshack part saving my life.
Now I guess you could argue the point that if the GFCI is faulty, it would send infinite amps through that circuit until the breaker broke, but I dont plan to use this E-Stop ever unless it is a complete emergency event. I can test the GFCI at the spa panel on occasion if I am leary about it's adequacy.
I'm with you on going without the fuse, but I disagree on not using a resistor. I don't think its good practice to intentionally subject your wiring and e-stop contacts to a direct short circuit. In my experience, resistors are pretty reliable.
Go back and read this entire thread.
The fuse is in place to prevent the wiring mistakes that can happen in the setup. IF the fuse blows, the builder messed up (as YOU did). If the circuit works properly without problems, the fuse is NOT needed.
Oh - The resistors are there to prevent an over draw of current on the circuit. Without them there is a dead short to ground. With a 30A mains breaker that is a 30A draw. That will kill the switch. With a 50A mains breaker you better jump back when the controller bursts into flames.
Hey, better yet, Just do it your way.
Go figure...
Another thing to consider is the damage you are doing to your power relay or contactor without the resistors. The contacts have been know to weld together when opening because of arcing during the inrush, which would be amplified by a short to ground. I think the resistors are a necessity but if you can get a bigger wire-wound resistor you won't have to worry about it being a point of failure. Although the 1K resistors should never see enough amperage to fail.
If you design the circuit to not fail, there will not be a problem. Resistors, sized properly are a fuse.
I'm building a panel now using a 5k / 5W resistor...costs about $0.50. That provides 24mA (120/5000) to trip the GFCI...Should be plenty.
Pushing the e-stop button will allow 24mA to flow and will dissipate 2.88W in the resistor. The resistor will not burn up, a fuse will not blow...the only possible failure is the GFCI is bad.
I really don't understand arguing this point. It's Ohms Law. I guess PJ would have a lot of diagrams to edit?
I'm building a panel now using a 5k / 5W resistor...costs about $0.50. That provides 24mA (120/5000) to trip the GFCI...Should be plenty.
Pushing the e-stop button will allow 24mA to flow and will dissipate 2.88W in the resistor. The resistor will not burn up, a fuse will not blow...the only possible failure is the GFCI is bad.
I really don't understand arguing this point. It's Ohms Law. I guess PJ would have a lot of diagrams to edit?
What ever you say.
P-J said:What ever you say.
I love you man! I enjoy arguing this point with you. We both have taken our stand and are not backing down. That's ok. If we polled this, you would win. But, I'm right
We need to get together for a beer!
kpr121
Well-Known Member
I do think I will put the resistor into my system. I gotta open the cp up to figure out why the buzzer/alarm won't work anyhow. But there will be no fuse, thats my stance and I'm sticking to it!. I already know I wired it up correctly (unlike the buzzer maybe but that isn't a critical path!)
As always I enjoy these e-threads! Thanks everyone!
As always I enjoy these e-threads! Thanks everyone!
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