At my wits end with kegging

I just made my first attempt at kegging an American Style Light ... I did everything I thought I was supposed to ... Once the beer was in I let it cool in the fridge over night... I hooked it up to 30# and rocked it for 10 min... I lowered the pressured to 10# or so for serving and it was basically all foam ... when it cleared I tried it and it WAS carbonated slightly but not near enough ... I hooked it back up and tried again rocking with 30# for 5 more minutes ... Tried it and still basically all foam out of the tap and flat beer... I have gone back an forth like this a couple times .. My beer is flat and I get nothing but head when I open the tap .. I want my beer more carbonated but I can't poor one as it is with all the head ... I'm ready to give up but I have spent a lot of money on my kegerator to give up now... If anyone has any suggestions I would love to hear it cause I am feeling defeated at the moment.... and now when I open the tap my beer seems like it has more head and less carbonation to the beer I DON'T GET IT! Here is a couple pictures of my set up ...

Edit: After re-reading your post, I see you're missing the venting of the keg after shaking it. The steps are:

1. cool overnight
2. pressurize to 30#
3. close gas line
4. shake
5. let it sit a few minutes
5.5 (vent) <= this is what I did, some may skip it
6. open gas line to pressurize to 30# again
7. close gas line
8. shake
8. let it sit a few minutes
9. vent
10. set serving pressure
11. open gas line
12. pour

[Edit 2] There's a thread in the forums that explain how to fix an over carbonated keg.

But in the worse case scenario, just vent the keg, set it to serving pressure and wait two weeks for it to equalize. This way, you'll probably be able to start drinking it in a week with a pretty close carbonation level, but it'll definitely get better after 2 weeks.

[original]
10 psi seems to be to low for serving. The foam problem did not go away in my first (and last) keg due to slow flow.

1. Make sure you're opening the tap all the way up. If you're not, you're restricting the flow of the beer and it'll foam up.
2. If it's still foaming up, raise the pressure a couple of PSI at a time and try again.

See if that helps.

There are other things that can cause all of that foam, too; like the beer line being be too short/long.

This is your FIRST attempt at kegging and in a matter of 15 minutes of trying to carbonate your beer, you're ready to give up? In that case, I want to be the first to offer you $50 for all of your kegging equipment.

Anyways, if you read any threads on here about carbonating a keg, many people suggest the sit and wait method because it is easy to mess things up doing burst carbonation if you are not sure what you are doing. Instead of throwing your hands up in the air, why not just let the keg sit at a proper pressure for 2 weeks and see how it is doing?

A couple things to try:

1) Lengthen your liquid line from the keg to the tap. There's a formula around here somewhere but some person with better google skills than me needs to link it.

2) Vent your keg nearly completely. Reattach at your new pressure and let it sit again overnight. For what it's worth, my pressure sits at nearly 12 for serving.

Also a tip just in case this is your first time dealing with one. The tap is for full-on or full-off. You never open a tap handle half way, that's all you will get is foam. It takes time to force carb. The super quick method never seems to work for me. If you set serving pressure and leave it a week, it's usually fine.

Setting psi high and shaking gives unreliable results, I have found. Also, it still takes days with that method to hit proper serving pressure.
Better bet (requires patience) is to set it around 11-12 psi and leave it for 10-14 days to absorb properly.

My setup uses 10 foot lines at 12 psi and kegs are left for about 12 days to carb before drinking.

-J.

Wow that is way different than I thought ... Ok soo... After I have tried blasting this thing with carbonation over and over again.. I will try setting to 12 psi and leave it alone for 10 days .. I will reply on the threat after that... Does it matter that I have probably pissed away a 6th of my beer trying it numerous times? (I probably just pissed a lot of people off saying that)

Canadianbrewer2012 said:

Wow that is way different than I thought ... Ok soo... After I have tried blasting this thing with carbonation over and over again.. I will try setting to 12 psi and leave it alone for 10 days .. I will reply on the threat after that... Does it matter that I have probably pissed away a 6th of my beer trying it numerous times? (I probably just pissed a lot of people off saying that)

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We'll let it go this time, but this is the sort of thing that will get you banned from the forums

[quote="Does it matter that I have probably pissed away a 6th of my beer trying it numerous times?][/quote]

It may finish carbing 1/6 quicker

It might also already be over carbed. Remember, if you are getting nothing but foam/head, that's co2 coming out of solution, of course what's left will be flat. I'd pull it off the gas, vent it, then leave it in the kegerator for a day and try it. I've only done the shake thing once and have regretted it. I'd much rather set it to 12 psi and wait it out. Even drinking it early and having semi flat beer at day four is better than having to troubleshoot.

There is a sticky thread called force carbonation that goes into infinite detail on how this can be done. It is long, and has many posts where people tell what works for them, but by and large the overall preferred method seems to be 20-30psi for 24hrs, then set to 12psi for at least a week. That is almost exactly what I used to do, and I always had good luck. Also, someone else mentioned it, but your serving line is awfully short. I keep mine at least 10ft. I have one that is 15ft for beers that I like to have a bit more carbonation on.

mysd said:

Setting psi high and shaking gives unreliable results, I have found. Also, it still takes days with that method to hit proper serving pressure.
Better bet (requires patience) is to set it around 11-12 psi and leave it for 10-14 days to absorb properly.

My setup uses 10 foot lines at 12 psi and kegs are left for about 12 days to carb before drinking.

-J.

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Set and forget is tried and true, but there is no real reason you can't rock your keg at your target psi. For example if your carb chart says to put 12psi at 45 degrees, you can set and forget just fine... But what I do is set it to 12, lay the cooled keg on its side and rock it slowly for 10-20 minutes. It's worked for me every time and because its set at your target carbonation level already, then you have almost no chance of overcarbing it.

I don't understand why people burst carb their beer when this method works perfect every time.

One more thing to note is this will get you close enough to your target but not all the way.

use the stickies, they are there for a reason.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/keg-force-carbing-methods-illustrated-73328/

Canadianbrewer2012 said:

I just made my first attempt at kegging an American Style Light ... I did everything I thought I was supposed to ... Once the beer was in I let it cool in the fridge over night... I hooked it up to 30# and rocked it for 10 min... I lowered the pressured to 10# or so for serving and it was basically all foam ...

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The shake and blast method is a good way to end up with foamy and inconsistent carbonated beer if you don't know what you're doing.

I would highly recommend setting the PSI and temperature to your serving pressure and temperature, and walking away. Leave it the hell alone for two weeks. Yes, it takes two weeks longer to carbonate, but do you see many if any posts of people who have foamy inconsistent kegged beer using the 'set and forget' method? It also gives you the extra benefit of clarifying your beer - letting it sit at serving temperature for a couple weeks will really boost the clarity.

I would recommend only one change with system you've shown us. I would recommend moving to a longer beverage line - 10 feet is the general recommendation.

Even when it's carbed properly you will still get lots of foam. You need 10ft of 3/16" beer line to give the proper amount of restriction so the beer comes out slow and doesn't foam. without at least 8 ft it will come out very fast and foam up ( unless you serve at 4 psi) .

For what it's worth, I use 8ft lines in my set up, and they work out great. A buddy of mine has 5 or 6 foot lines, and the first pour always comes out with too much head. Looks like your line is maybe 3 to 4ft, being generous... That's absolutely going to be a source of foaming, as folks have pointed out.

divi2323 said:

For example if your carb chart says to put 12psi at 45 degrees, you can set and forget just fine... But what I do is set it to 12, lay the cooled keg on its side and rock it slowly for 10-20 minutes.

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So if 'set and forget' at 12psi takes 10-14 days to properly carb, how many days does your 'rocking at 12psi' method typically take to reach proper carb?

divi2323 said:

Set and forget is tried and true, but there is no real reason you can't rock your keg at your target psi. For example if your carb chart says to put 12psi at 45 degrees, you can set and forget just fine... But what I do is set it to 12, lay the cooled keg on its side and rock it slowly for 10-20 minutes. It's worked for me every time and because its set at your target carbonation level already, then you have almost no chance of overcarbing it.

I don't understand why people burst carb their beer when this method works perfect every time.

One more thing to note is this will get you close enough to your target but not all the way.

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True, but many people feel that shaking kills some of the proteins that contribute to head and head retention. It also creates a risk of oxidation if the keg isn't purged well enough, and it's actually harder to fully purge the keg than you might think. 30 psi for ~36 hrs and then serving pressure is a pretty reliable "burst carb" method, although I usually prefer the set and forget or natural carbonation.

JRems said:

Even when it's carbed properly you will still get lots of foam. You need 10ft of 3/16" beer line to give the proper amount of restriction so the beer comes out slow and doesn't foam. without at least 8 ft it will come out very fast and foam up ( unless you serve at 4 psi) .

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There are a lot of factors at play though. If you keep the beer ice cold and at a moderate carb level, 4-5' lines work fine, which is why most kegerators and kegerator kits come with 5' lines. If you call to complain about the line length, they'll tell you that you're serving/storing the beer too warm, and that you'll get infections in the beer if it's stored above 36F (which we know isn't true). They're using information geared towards commercial draught systems, and sadly most if not all of the online draught balancing calculators also rely on the same info. This doesn't always apply to home brewers who like to serve their beer warmer, or at a variety of carb levels, and who don't care if it takes a couple extra seconds to pour a beer. I absolutely agree that 10' of 3/16" line is a great starting point for most people. The only side effect from extra long lines is a slightly slower pour, so as long as it's not painfully slow, I say the longer the better.

TheZer said:

So if 'set and forget' at 12psi takes 10-14 days to properly carb, how many days does your 'rocking at 12psi' method typically take to reach proper carb?

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Never had to do this more than 30 minutes. It's ready almost instantly. You of course need to let the beer settle for a while like you would a shaken beer bottle.

The other post about head retention, I'd not heard of that. Wonder where that is referenced. I have no issues with head retention myself, but would certainly entertain an experiment to confirm or disprove the theory.

JuanMoore said:

... so as long as it's not painfully slow, I say the longer the better.

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And off topic.... That's what she said.

divi2323 said:

Never had to do this more than 30 minutes. It's ready almost instantly. You of course need to let the beer settle for a while like you would a shaken beer bottle.

The other post about head retention, I'd not heard of that. Wonder where that is referenced. I have no issues with head retention myself, but would certainly entertain an experiment to confirm or disprove the theory.

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I don't remember the sources offhand, but I've read it several times, and it seemed like reliable info. I've tried shaking a few times to compare, and didn't notice any difference in the amount of head, and maybe a tiny difference in head retention. I'd guess there's some truth to it, but the effects are likely minimal. The main reason I avoid shaking is oxidation. I also have a carb stone, so I can safely carb in under a day if I need to.

divi2323 said:

And off topic.... That's what she said.

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Ha!

+1 for a longer liquid line. Patience man, it will all turn out well!

Well that makes me feel better I had no idea about the line length ... I will leave the keg at 12 psi for 12 days, install a 10' line and report back for anyone who cares about how it turned out. THANKS AGAIN FOLKS!

Yeah, that line is really short. If you use worm clamps, I'd even go 12'. I have 12' lines and coil them in a circle, secure with zip ties and place them on top of the kegs. If the pour is a little too slow for you, then chop off 2' of each line and go with 10'.

If you.properly purge a keg, there is very little risk of oxidation.

Well it's a pin lock keg so I was purging the oxygen from the

Quit effin with it.Undercarbed kegs are waaaay better than overcarbed which you are going to end up with).Go buy some good Pale Ale and let it sit for a few days.

lylo said:

Quit effin with it.Undercarbed kegs are waaaay better than overcarbed which you are going to end up with).Go buy some good Pale Ale and let it sit for a few days.

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What's wrong with my new plan? Is leaving it at 12 for ten days "effin with it"? I purged it prior the beer ... How can that hurt it?

I don't think he/she read the replies, just the first post. Your new plan sounds good - that's pretty much the set it and forget it method that many people (including me) do. I do 12psi at around 39° or 40° and let it go.

BrewThruYou said:

I don't think he/she read the replies, just the first post. Your new plan sounds good - that's pretty much the set it and forget it method that many people (including me) do. I do 12psi at around 39° or 40° and let it go.

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So how long do you leave it? And when you go to pour your first pint is it a lot of head?.... Are there any problems?... or is this a bullet proof method?

Canadianbrewer2012 said:

So how long do you leave it? And when you go to pour your first pint is it a lot of head?.... Are there any problems?... or is this a bullet proof method?

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The set and forget method usually takes 10-18 days, depending on carb level. It is pretty much a foolproof method, but requires a little patience. The first ~1/2 pint usually has a lot of yeast sediment, and then it pours clear, no more than usual head though. If the first pour of each drinking session has a lot of head, but then it pours fine, your lines/shank/faucet aren't being kept cold enough.

Canadianbrewer2012 said:

Well it's a pin lock keg so I was purging the oxygen from the

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From the gas post you say.

Two things.

1: I don't believe that co2 introduced through the gas dip tube forms a little blanket right at the bottom of the headspace in the tank. Makes no sense. Turbulence from the gas entering would cause it to mix with the atmosphere inside the headspace almost completely. IMHO.

2: Even if the "oxygen floats on top" theory is correct, which it isn't, venting through the gas post comes with an inherent risk of beer fountains.

BUT, this is all easily dealt with. Go to Harbor Freight or whatever hardware store and get a cheap pipe cutter.

The next time you have the gas post off, use the pipe cutter to trim the gas dip tube as short as you can make it with the pipe cutter, which is about 1/2 inch.

The only real job that dip tube has is to hold the o-ring in place.

This will help you avoid beer fountains, and assuage any superstition about mystical co2 that does not rapidly mix with it's surrounding atmosphere.

If you don't have a pin-lock post wrench, go make one. or buy one. But if you have a dremel tool or an angle grinder, they are cheap and easy to make. If you don't have the ability to strip down the keg, there will come a day when you have a leak that you can't fix until you have the right tools.

Here's the thing. You can't set and forget after you are already overcarbed. At this point i would disconnect the gas and try to pour. If it is foam, vent the keg to zero and come back in 3 hour to test pour again. If foam, vent to zero and wait again.

Bobby_M said:

Here's the thing. You can't set and forget after you are already overcarbed. At this point i would disconnect the gas and try to pour. If it is foam, vent the keg to zero and come back in 3 hour to test pour again. If foam, vent to zero and wait again.

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So is the idea that eventually u will be able pour a pint that is not just foam and you can evaluate the carbonation levels?

Assuming you're not knocking all the CO2 out of solution due to short lines, you will eventually get the volumes of CO2 down enough so that it will pour nicely.

Well I have installed 10' lines and now have disconnected the gas and am relieving it of c02 every few hrs ... It is already pouring nicer than before but still mostly foam... Luckily I anticipated that I may have some trial and error with kegging so I am making my first attempt at it with a cheap extract kit that I don't much mind if I waste.. I just want to figure his out now before I keg my dark ale I have had conditioning for 3 months. Thanks for the input Bobby_M .. It has helped a lot

I usually just shake it up around 2 to 4 minutes and then leave them for two days or so. I never get overcarbed and I don't have to wait for 7-10 days for carbonation. It's worked out pretty well so far.

The other tip is to make sure you aren't just opening the tap part way; somewhat unintuitively, if you try to open the tap part way to slow the flow (usually because you're getting some foam), it just causes even more foam. You have to open the tap all the way.