malolactic fermentation

Hi, I'm currently brewing cider for the first time and at the moment have four demijohns full of cider. I first kept the juice in a bucket for aerobic fermentation for about 72 hours, then I siphoned off the juice into the demijohns.

Now, after only two days, the airlock bubbling has slowed down a lot - to about a rate of one bubble every 7 seconds (one demijohn is actually at one bubble every 16 secs).

I am expecting the bubbling to have completely stopped after a couple of weeks, but then I am hoping the malolactic fermentation will kick in - I tried a bit of the cider before siphoning into the demijohns and it was VERY sour, so I am hoping the malolactic fermentation will soften the taste a bit.

My question is, do I leave the cider in the airlocked demijohns for the malolactic fermentation to work its magic, or should I bottle it? Also, how long should it be left for for the sourness to subside?

Any help would be much appreciated!

steve

An additional note - I've just done a hydrometer reading which now reads 1000, (it was originally 1055). Does this mean fermentation has finished? Can we now bottle it to allow the malolactic fermentation to take place?

It might go below 1.000 since alcohol is lighter than water. It might not be finished, especially if you added additional sugar to the juice. As far as malolactic fermentation, I can't help you there. Good luck!

You don't want to bottle before you do MLF. MLF produces co2, and will cause bottle bombs if MLF happens in the bottle.

If you racked after 72 hours, the yeast are definitely still fermenting. Also, depending on the strain of yeast you used, you may not get malolactic fermentation since it is done by bacteria which turn malic acid into lactic acid. I know there are a few wine strains out there that contain the bacteria as part of the culture. You can also buy it as a pure culture.

Fermenting cider is usually pretty sour and is kind of a bad indication of how the final product will turn out. What kind of juice did you use?

hey, cheers for the replies...

I thought that if MLF occurs in sealed bottles the cider will absorb the co2 thus making it fizzy?? I guess if it's gonna blow up then I better not do it....

I used a specific 'cider yeast', and used juice from apples in the garden (a variety). After chopping, blending and pressing, and adding extra sugar to bump the OG up to 1055, the juice tasted AMAZING, and obviously now its dry and sour. I just thought that MLF was a natural process that reduced the sourness. So you think I may need to buy some of this culture? Or do you think it will just mellow out naturally?

OR should I just add saccharine or lactose to make it sweeter?

I'm not 100% sure in cider making. I know the bacteria can occur naturally, but thats pretty iffy. People usually inoculate. I wouldn't focus on MLF for this cider. If it happens, great. If not, not biggie. Unless you took a measurement of titratible acid as malic acid you don't really know how much acid is in the cider in the first place. As far as I know, in cider making, you only want to encourage MLF when your acid levels happen to be too high. Acid tends to be high in US varieties, so it definitely is a possibility.

I guess I'm trying to say not to expect MLF to be a given

I agree- I don't do MLF on my ciders. I think that one of the great things about cider is that "tang" from the malic acid. Of course, I don't make many ciders at all and others may do things quite differently. I use sulfites in many of my ciders and wines, partly to make sure MLF doesn't happen later in the bottle.

If you want to carbonate the cider, simply adding a premeasured amount of sugar in the bottle when bottling will "prime" the cider and cause carbonation.

yep ok, I guess i won't depend on MLF to happen then - I suppose when it comes to bottling the cider, I can taste it, and add some kind of sweetener if the acid levels are too high.

Also, you mention using sulfites to stop MLF happening in your ciders and wines....well I actually put campden tablets in the juice to kill the wild yeast - so I guess that will prevent the MLF anyway! (maybe should have mentioned that before....).

One more question - The fermentation seems to have really slowed down now, to about one bubble every 20 secs, so I guess I'll be bottling it within the next week maybe (??), and then would you recommend leaving it to mature in the bottles for a few weeks?


I think when I decided I was gonna make some cider I naively thought it would be standard, straightforward process but after plenty of internet research I've found there are so many variables and methods! Which actually makes it a hell of a lot more interesting!

How long has it been since you pitched the yeast? Unless you are going to do the Stovetop Pasteurization method, you want to make sure fermentations is absolutely done before bottling. That means letting the cider sit for around 3 weeks, or until the gravity is stable (read with a hydrometer or refractometer). Ciders can take a while to ferment, and airlock activity is not a good indication of active (or lack of) fermentation.

If you bottle the cider before its done fermenting, make sure to do the pasteurization method or else you will end up with bottle bombs.

I put the yeast in last monday night (so pretty much a week ago). Did a hydrometer reading yesterday and it was at about 1003, down from 1055. If you recommend leaving it for a few more weeks then thats what I'll do, don't want exploding bottles...

However, I am planning on putting a teaspoon of sugar in each bottle that I fill to carbonate it - you don't think this will make the bottle blow? (Am I right in thinking the reason this makes it fizzy because it causes a little bit of fermentation?)

Lysozyme is the only product I am aware of that will stop or inhibit further MLF. I am sure there are others, but that is the only one I am aware of and have ever used.

Potassium Sorbate can also be used if sweetening your cider is considered. It will inhibit further or continued fermentation.

Salute!

Yes, your reasoning is correct. You usually have to add a little bit of sugar when bottling to create more CO2, which this time is trapped in the bottle. If you want to prime each bottle, I'd suggest seeking out "Coopers Carbonation Drops" Its a prescrbed dose of sugar designed to fit into beer bottle necks. That will be a lot more accurate and sanitary than a teaspoon in each bottle.

Aside from that, most poeple here use a bottling bucket. You can get these dirt cheap. They have a spigot at the bottom where you attach a plastic hose and bottling wand. The bottling wand has a valve at the bottom so when you depress it in the bottom of the bottle, beer/cider flows into the bottle. People will usually prime the entire batch in the bottling bucket instead of administering sugar to each bottle separately. The generic amount is 3/4 cup sugar dissolved in about a cup of water, boiled then put in the bottom of the bottling bucket before racking the cider. This is the best way to get consistent carbonation between all of the bottles.

Ok brilliant. After a few weeks I'm going to syphon the cider into a bucket, add lactose (or potassium sorbate, and not sure how much yet) and about 82 grams of sugar dissolved in boiling water to prime it (did a bit of research), and then I'll bottle it straight away!

Any recommendations on what temperature to keep the demijohns at for the time being? I can leave it in the house, or in the garage (and it is autumn now so might be a bit cold).

Below 70F and above 50F

ok cool. Thanks very much for the help!

I'm like 2 weeks too late, but here's a couple things I've found out:

K-sorbate doesn't stop MLF and in fact can produce a nasty 'geranium' taste if MLF does occur. 50 ppm sulfite is recommended before bottling instead.

Malolactic ferment CAN occur even if you sulfited before ferment, it depends on levels of free sulfites and pH. I've been trying for the past 3 hours to figure out what the exact level should be, but it's determined by a bunch of chemistry that you don't have control over and can't measure anyway (sulfite-binding chemicals produced by yeast). From what I have figured out, MLF can happen if you've done 50ppm SO2 in a pH < 3.3 cider, maybe for 100ppm SO2 in a pH <3.5 cider, and you probably don't want it at higher pH anyway. I'm trying ~10gal cider this fall, gonna pitch an ML culture once it ferments dry.

I wouldn't worry about it, cider is pretty low in nutrients so unless you added yeast nutrient, the bacteria probably are hating life and won't do much.

Lastly, http://www.cider.org.uk/frameset.htm is a GREAT resource.