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Old 06-19-2012, 05:21 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by mmonacel View Post
Same question here for those that grow up pitches from dregs for sour beers. Even if there was no bottling yeast put in there, wouldn't the ratio of bugs (and therefore flavor / effect) be different after growing these up?
Yes but they would still be there and add a little depth to the beer.
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:22 PM   #72
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Thanks jipper

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Old 06-19-2012, 05:22 PM   #73
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For those pitching from dregs of Consecration bottles-

wouldn't you just be pitching mainly the wine yeast? Vinnie bottle conditions with Rockpile wine yeast. So not only are you having bugs eat away... you'd be fermenting your beer with wine yeast. Right?
Well the brett and bacteria should still be floating around. Wine yeast generally only consume simple sugars so they will leave the malt sugars for the ale yeast and the more complex stuff for brett and the bacteria.
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:53 PM   #74
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That's correct - you'd be pitching the wine yeast at the same time you're pitching the bugs/brett. If you were to grow up dregs from other sour beers that strictly used a brettanomyces for conditioning I think you'd come across some very similar flavors to the original beer, but there are so many variables that come into play, it's hard to say you'd get an exact replica. If you were to use the dregs from one bottle just to condition your bottles (rather than fermenting with the dregs) you'd have a similar effect that the dregs had on the original beer, but again, it's just one of many variables involved in the beer.

Trying to replicate somebody's pale ale recipe is somewhat simple (provided you have temperature controlled fermentation, make the same size yeast starter for the same amount of time, etc). Replicating somebody's sour beer recipe is an entirely different task. Our Consecration kit was provided to us from Vinnie himself, with some rather specific details on his processes. Even with all of these details it is hard to make Consecration - I mean if anybody out there is using a Cabernet barrel during the aging/souring stages, then you have a much better shot, but still...making Consecration exactly like Vinnie is somewhat of a longshot. This recipe and kit will make some EXTREMELY good sour beer however (I recently tasted mine which has been sitting in a barrel for roughly 6 weeks now and it's coming along rather nicely). If anybody has any questions just let me know - great question tmains regarding the wine yeast when pitching dregs. In the end, Vinnie is using the same yeast that everyone here has access to, so pitching dregs may not be the best option for this particular kit, but I haven't tried it so can't say exactly what the outcome would be. Anybody that is trying this method please feel free to chime in; I'm sure I'm not the only one wondering how it's going!

Cheers everyone!

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Old 06-19-2012, 08:13 PM   #75
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Matt,

Excited to be brewing this weekend!

My recipe sheet has the right IBU (15-18). What are the correct OG, SRM and ABV targets?

Also, I don't see any guidance for temperature for secondary fermentation - any guidance there? How warm is too warm?

Thanks!

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Old 06-19-2012, 08:32 PM   #76
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If your recipe sheet has the correct IBU than all of the other information should be correct as well. The SRM should be around 30, OG between 1.073-1.078 (I think sheet says 1.073-1.077?) and ABV will be around 9% (this is prior to the brettanomyces - afterwards it will be around 10% which is what actual consecration is).

Secondary temperature is an excellent question. I currently have my barrel around 72*F and that has been working well for me. B. Lambicus is good up to 75*F, and I am unfortunately not certain what temperature Vinnie has his barrel room at. I'm guessing it would be lower than 72*F, but uncertain.

Let me know if you have any other questions!

Cheers!

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Old 06-19-2012, 09:09 PM   #77
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If your recipe sheet has the correct IBU than all of the other information should be correct as well. The SRM should be around 30, OG between 1.073-1.078 (I think sheet says 1.073-1.077?) and ABV will be around 9% (this is prior to the brettanomyces - afterwards it will be around 10% which is what actual consecration is).

Secondary temperature is an excellent question. I currently have my barrel around 72*F and that has been working well for me. B. Lambicus is good up to 75*F, and I am unfortunately not certain what temperature Vinnie has his barrel room at. I'm guessing it would be lower than 72*F, but uncertain.

Let me know if you have any other questions!

Cheers!
Thanks Matt - that's helpful. Once more question for you and anyone else who wants to chime in. I thought I've seen that Vinnie uses a Brett mix along the lines of: 50% Brett Brux., 10% Brett Claus., 10% Brett Lambicus, and his RR Funky mix of Brett, Pedio, Lacto.

I'll pitch Brett only first. I don't know of any Brett only mixes, just pure Brett strains. Should I go with Brett L.? I'm making a 10 gal batch, and considering splitting secondary into two with one Brett L and one Brett B, just to see what comes out. And of course pitch something like Roeselare 7-8 weeks later. Thoughts?
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:41 PM   #78
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Hey Nesto,

Another great question. I am using Brett L on mine, and will be pitching Roeselare next Monday after NHC. I unfortunately don't know exactly what blend he uses if he does use one - he just told us "Brett" when he emailed the recipe over. "We add 1 million cells of Brett per ml beer to the beer. I assume you'll figure this to be say one vile per X gallons of beer...We do not purge the barrel with Co2, but, it might not hurt. We leave a minimum of 5 gallons of head space and usually more like 8 gallons. There is a lot of residual sugar and sugar from the currants that the Brett will ferment out."

1 Gallon = 3,785mL, but I don't know how many cells are in on vial of White Labs/packet of Wyeast (White Labs has 35mL in their Brett, Wyeast has 100mL in their Brett)

He also mentions adding more Brett when he adds his bugs after the original addition.

I think the split of Brett B and Brett L is a good idea, not only to see the differences, but to blend later. You could find a good blend (50/50, 30/70, etc), or find that you like them individually.

Cheers!

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Old 06-20-2012, 01:00 AM   #79
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Hey Nesto,

Another great question. I am using Brett L on mine, and will be pitching Roeselare next Monday after NHC. I unfortunately don't know exactly what blend he uses if he does use one - he just told us "Brett" when he emailed the recipe over. "We add 1 million cells of Brett per ml beer to the beer. I assume you'll figure this to be say one vile per X gallons of beer...We do not purge the barrel with Co2, but, it might not hurt. We leave a minimum of 5 gallons of head space and usually more like 8 gallons. There is a lot of residual sugar and sugar from the currants that the Brett will ferment out."

1 Gallon = 3,785mL, but I don't know how many cells are in on vial of White Labs/packet of Wyeast (White Labs has 35mL in their Brett, Wyeast has 100mL in their Brett)

He also mentions adding more Brett when he adds his bugs after the original addition.

I think the split of Brett B and Brett L is a good idea, not only to see the differences, but to blend later. You could find a good blend (50/50, 30/70, etc), or find that you like them individually.

Cheers!
Ok - good to know. We'll have to work on our yeast supplier friends to give us a Brett blend ;-)

And thanks for the idea, hadn't really though of blending, but that will be a fun experiment too.
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:18 AM   #80
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I just plugged this into BeerSmith and while the OG, color, and ABV is correct, the IBUs (28 Tinsenth; 33 Rager) seem way off - almost double. Below is a pic of what I have which I believe I've entered correctly given the recipe sheet. Any ideas?

Recipe sheet (hops):
0.5 oz Styrian Goldings @ 90 min. (I received 4% AA)
1 oz Sterling @ 30 min. (I received 7.3%)
1 oz Sterling @ 1 min. (I received 7.3%)

consecration.jpg  
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