Zero Foam Head -- Boil Related?

[Paisano]

I'm cross-posting this from the extract forum, thinking there's likely a technical issue at play here that has not been answered in the prior thread. In short, I have great tasting & carbonated beer with no foam. Here are some details:

"... I've been brewing with extracts, specialty grains, using a fair amount of hops, not been using the dishwasher or rinse-aids, have been meticulous about cleanliness, and pouring fully carbed bottled beer into a room-temp glass. However, I get great tasting, clean beer that is appropriately carbonated, but with absolutely zero foam head. My last batch I even used the Muntons carb-tabs containing heading powder to prime with, but still *zero* foam head.

I wonder, could there be something going on with the boil here? I usually get the wort to a roaring boil for a full hour and produce a large amount of hot-break in the brew pot. I am wondering if too much protein is precipitating out for foam retention?

I am open to any thoughts/suggestions here. I have great tasting beer that isn't as enjoyable to drink without a foam head. "

Thanks in advance for an insight you might have!

 

[jvcjbl]

My recent IPA had zero head. I thought it was the base malts I used. It was actually just because of age. How old is this beer?

 

[theredben]

When you say "meticulous" about cleanliness, are you using soap on anything that touches your beer?

 

[350_Malibu]

Vigorously shake the bottle before you open it and you will have plenty of foam.

Seriously, I have had a few batches the same way and I have no idea why they are like that. Other batches I have done (same exact process using star sans for sanitizer) have a good 1-1.5" of head that stands tall for quite a while. They still taste fine, so I drink em' up the way they are.

 

[Paisano]

My recent IPA had zero head. I thought it was the base malts I used. It was actually just because of age. How old is this beer?

Fresh kit from Midwest that has been priming for three weeks at 68F.

 

[Paisano]

When you say "meticulous" about cleanliness, are you using soap on anything that touches your beer?

Absolutely no soap on anything.

 

[Paisano]

One more thing: I just used a thorough salt water wash on a glass to rule out a "film" on the glass as a cause. However, same result: no foam at all.

 

[Paisano]

Vigorously shake the bottle before you open it and you will have plenty of foam.

Seriously, I have had a few batches the same way and I have no idea why they are like that. Other batches I have done (same exact process using star sans for sanitizer) have a good 1-1.5" of head that stands tall for quite a while. They still taste fine, so I drink em' up the way they are.

I agree. However, I'm hesitant to give away my great tasting beer (which I had intended to do) when it has a lousy presentation. The psychology of "no foam" will kill the great flavor for the average drinker.

 

[cscade]

I'm not sure if either of these things relate to your process or not, but they are both items I modified/rectified in mine to significantly improve head retention:

- When I started brewing, I had a small boil vessel. I would skim the hot break to prevent nasty boil overs. Result: no head beer
- When I started whirlpool chilling, my initial chiller design returned the wort to the kettle above water line. Result: less head, poor clarity

 

[IsoAlphaMale]

Any "foaming" between mashing and bottling is gone forever. I always add a bit of wheat to every brew to help with head retention.

 

[redcoat_or_rebel]

are "foam stability" and "head retention" the same thing?
i found this interesting and might be something you can try out. you would have to purchase the article to read the entire thing but you can still glean a decent amount from the abstract.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf035125c

Impact of Different Wort Boiling Temperatures on the Beer Foam Stabilizing Properties of Lipid Transfer Protein 1

Beer consumers demand satisfactory and consistent foam stability; thus, it is a high priority for brewers. Beer foam is stabilized by the interaction between certain beer proteins, including lipid transfer protein 1 (LTP1), and isomerized hop α-acids, but destabilized by lipids. In this study it was shown that the wort boiling temperature during the brewing process was critical in determining the final beer LTP1 content and conformation. LTP1 levels during brewing were measured by an LTP1 ELISA, using antinative barley LTP1 polyclonal antibodies. It was observed that the higher wort boiling temperatures (102 °C), resulting from low altitude at sea level, reduced the final beer LTP1 level to 2−3 μg/mL, whereas the lower wort boiling temperatures (96 °C), resulting from higher altitudes (1800 m), produced LTP1 levels between 17 and 35 μg/mL. Low levels of LTP1 in combination with elevated levels of free fatty acids (FFA) resulted in poor foam stability, whereas beer produced with low levels of LTP1 and FFA had satisfactory foam stability. Previous studies indicated the need for LTP1 denaturing to improve its foam stabilizing properties. However, the results presented here show that LTP1 denaturation reduces its ability to act as a binding protein for foam-damaging FFA. These investigations suggest that wort boiling temperature is an important factor in determining the level and conformation of LTP1, thereby favoring satisfactory beer foam stability.

so what i get from this is that depending on the beer you are brewing you may need to adjust your boil temp to keep enough proteins around for the FFAs.

 

[Paisano]

are "foam stability" and "head retention" the same thing?
i found this interesting and might be something you can try out. you would have to purchase the article to read the entire thing but you can still glean a decent amount from the abstract.

http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf035125c

Impact of Different Wort Boiling Temperatures on the Beer Foam Stabilizing Properties of Lipid Transfer Protein 1

Beer consumers demand satisfactory and consistent foam stability; thus, it is a high priority for brewers. Beer foam is stabilized by the interaction between certain beer proteins, including lipid transfer protein 1 (LTP1), and isomerized hop α-acids, but destabilized by lipids. In this study it was shown that the wort boiling temperature during the brewing process was critical in determining the final beer LTP1 content and conformation. LTP1 levels during brewing were measured by an LTP1 ELISA, using antinative barley LTP1 polyclonal antibodies. It was observed that the higher wort boiling temperatures (102 °C), resulting from low altitude at sea level, reduced the final beer LTP1 level to 2−3 μg/mL, whereas the lower wort boiling temperatures (96 °C), resulting from higher altitudes (1800 m), produced LTP1 levels between 17 and 35 μg/mL. Low levels of LTP1 in combination with elevated levels of free fatty acids (FFA) resulted in poor foam stability, whereas beer produced with low levels of LTP1 and FFA had satisfactory foam stability. Previous studies indicated the need for LTP1 denaturing to improve its foam stabilizing properties. However, the results presented here show that LTP1 denaturation reduces its ability to act as a binding protein for foam-damaging FFA. These investigations suggest that wort boiling temperature is an important factor in determining the level and conformation of LTP1, thereby favoring satisfactory beer foam stability.

so what i get from this is that depending on the beer you are brewing you may need to adjust your boil temp to keep enough proteins around for the FFAs.

PERFECT! This is exactly the info I was looking for and it confirms my suspicions. Thanks!!

 

[Kaiser]

Paisano,

Here is something you may want to try. Take some of your beer and put it into a small soda bottle (you may also use a Mason jar with lid but only with flat beer). Do the same with another beer that has good head retention. Shake both of them up vigorously and observe how fast the foam collapses. Is there a difference?

This could answer the question if the beer is able to hold foam or not.

The only no-head beer I ever made was a Weissbier made with an odd yeast.

IsoAlphaMale,

You may want to check out this experiment that I did a while back:
How much effect does repeated foaming have on head retention?

Kai

 

[redcoat_or_rebel]

PERFECT! This is exactly the info I was looking for and it confirms my suspicions. Thanks!!

glad i could help.:rockin:

 

[Malintent]

buy a brand new glass, rinse with plain water, and see if you have issues... if your glasses are old, they could be harboring some fats on the surface that is killing your head upon pouring.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Can you provide some specifics about the yeast (strain, pitch rate, etc) and fermentation (temp, time in primary, did you secondary, etc.)?

 

[cox8611]

Any "foaming" between mashing and bottling is gone forever. I always add a bit of wheat to every brew to help with head retention.

+1 to tossing in wheat. From what i've read head retention is all about treating proteins right. If there is some question to the modification of the malt, that might change the amount/type of proteins in the final beer. This can be fixed by a protein rest during the mash or mini-mash, or adding malts that have a lot of protein. Are the specialty grains you use high in protein? if not toss in wheat. 1/2# will do and not impart a huge flavor contribution.

 

[Paisano]

Can you provide some specifics about the yeast (strain, pitch rate, etc) and fermentation (temp, time in primary, did you secondary, etc.)?

I've recently encountered this on three different batches, all with different ingredients, with different yeast strains, all fermented for 3 weeks at 65F. The only new factor for me is the use of a stove with greater BTUs making much more of a roaring boil and greater hot break, hence my suspicions in my OP. My hunch was the loss of protein was a factor, and ss indicated in the abstract above, I'm almost certain that this loss of protein is the cause.

The next time I brew, I will limit my boil temps, compare, and I'll update the thread.

 

[beerkrump]

I've got some bad news. Your wort has a boiling point, not a boiling range. If you read the text quoted by redcoat it states that the altitude is the determining parameter in the boil temperature. If you have a huge burner, the amount of energy you are putting to your brew kettle will cause greater evaporation rates, but not temperature.

The solution, as mentioned, is to add a grain, wheat or carapils, that aids in head formation and retention. Or, live on a mountain.

 

[Paisano]

Your wort has a boiling point, not a boiling range.

Point well taken. However, there is a difference between a simmer, a boil, and a roaring boil. I suspect that more hot-break was produced at a roaring boil in my last few batches, which coincided with my total lack of foam, hence my suspicions. My previous stove had trouble producing a roaring boil, and I had foam. So, I thought I'd try simmering the wort (at my elevation of 800ft, this occurs at around 200F) instead of a full-on roaring boil. Do you see any problem with trying this?

As for adding grains, if I were to add a pound of cara pils or wheat, would I have to do a partial mash and hold it at a certain temp for a length of time? I'm not an all-grain brewer but I understand some of the basics.

Thanks for your help!

 

[beerkrump]

No problem with trying that, I was just pointing out that the study specifies that the temperature at which the boil occurs is the factor, not how vigorous the boil was.

Partial mashes are easy and there's a chapter in Palmer's "How to Brew".