Forgot one before: LOLcats. Burn 'em all. Srsly not fny.
I used to be solidly in this camp, until I had a kid. Then I eased off it a little. Surely, there is such a thing as inexcusable behavior which is the obvious result of lack of parental oversight, and that I still can't abide. I hold other kids up to my own kid's standards. I think that's fair.
But I've found lately there are lots of youngish people who really like to eye-f$#k me when I'm in public, and the sprog decides to throw a hissy. I think that's the most common thing that gets me stares. Screaming. There's no possible way to keep a kid from screaming when he decides to lose his mind.
I've actually had someone sigh and roll their eyes at me one day at a restaurant (family style place... we don't take him to white linen restaurants). I was in a mood largely because of the kid, and decided I didn't really want to put up with this guy. So I literally tapped his shoulder and asked if I could help him with his eye problems. After he finally got my meaning, he snarled up and said that I should "control my kid". I asked him if he thought it was truly possible to ever "control a kid". And then the gem of a response: "Well, you shouldn't bring a kid to a restaurant if he's going to scream."
My wife kept me from inviting him outside. Good thing, too... he was kind of big. But I tend to fight the fights that are worth losing.
While I understand your position, please understand that I've been that guy.
Play, I don't have any problem. When a child screams in delight, it bursts my eardrums but I can live with it - and I know how to tell the difference. But tantrums are simply inexcusable in a public place, and yes it
is the parent's responsibility to prevent other people's discomfort. If you’re responsible for the child, you’re responsible for the things the child does.
Let me put my position into an analogy. Do you find it cute, funny or just plain reasonable if my dog starts humping your leg? How about if he starts barking incessantly? You wouldn't take that if it was three houses down the street, much less in a restaurant or other public place. Please tell me how that's different from a child throwing a screaming fit or crawling over the booth's seatback. Please show me the crucial point of logic I'm missing.*
FireBrewer said:
Not all the time. Indeed there are "bad parents" and the definition varies depending upon what you value. Sometimes even the most well-behaved kid will misbehave because they want to see what they can get away with and they think they're in a place where mommy and daddy might not discipline them (they'll learn), they're having a bad day, their teeth hurt, etc. All dependent upon age and circumstance. It's development and psychology. If you think a 2 year-old is screaming just because they want to piss you off and you haven't considered the fact that a 2 year-old cannot communicate like an adult and doesn't even think like an adult, you haven't a clue. It doesn't relieve the parent of the responsibility of trying to identify the problem and be considerate of those around, but indeed some consideration is in order by those "affected". We were all children once and you learned what you're preaching because you crossed the line, pissed somebody off and prompted your parents to teach you the right way. And I'm sure invariably, someone was standing by, complaining about you.
I agree with most of what you’re saying here, except the part about there being some onus on the afflicted to be considerate. I’ll start being considerate when the sprog stops puncturing my eardrums, thanks so much.
See, the thing most modern parents don’t remember about their own childhood is that if I threw a wobbler, my parents took me away until I was finished. They were
embarrassed I threw a wobbler. Even at,
especially at church. They didn’t go out to eat with me until I was able to understand complete sentences and hold a fork – because they didn’t want my rendition of the natural antics you describe to annoy other people. Now
that’s what
I call being considerate.
I can find plenty of pets that are misbehaved. My kids don't **** on my neighbor's lawn or hump my friend's leg and they do listen better than my dogs.
See above analogy. That you can find ill-controlled pets means that you can find bad “pet parents” just like I can find bad parents. You’ve just proved my point. Thanks!
Here's what I think - parents have it easier than dog owners.
Now if
THAT don't start a flame war, nothing will!
Hear me out with a short scenario. You take your child to a grocery store. You need a few essentials, like milk (you're out). He throws a wobbler because you won't buy him Count Chocula. You immediately turn around and take him home. No milk, no groceries of any type. The next morning, when you slam a bowl of bone-dry Corn Flakes in front of him and he asks "Where's the milk?" you can give him an earful about his rotten behavior and teach him a valuable lesson. That's on top of the earful he got in the parking lot and on the way home.
Dogs don't discriminate like that. You can't teach a dog something after the fact; you can't withhold his morning feed because he humped your neighbor's leg last night. You can only correct bad behavior while it's happening.
Most bad behavior I witness in pubic doesn't even seem to register on the parent's face, much less merit any corrective action. At the most, I hear a wimpy,
sotto voce "Now, don't do that, Timmy." What am I supposed to think? That things are different in private? Right. If things were different in private, the child wouldn't be acting out in the first place.
This is evidence of when parents
give up, and I have a real problem with that. You chose to reproduce. You have an obligation to parent that child. You refused to parent your child in that restaurant. Your kid started screaming, you gave up. You showed no regard for other diners in that establishment who maybe didn't want to be encumbered with such a surfiet of noise. You showed the same lack of regard as if you were smoking a cigar, someone complained, and you blew smoke directly into his face while dunking the ciggie in his drink. When someone pointed out that your abdication of responsiblity annoyed him, you wanted to take him outside and smack him one - in other words,
you blamed
him for your failure.
You don't get to give up. You don't get to take an hour off to have dinner, unless you give the child to another responsible adult. That's part of the choice you made when you reproduced.
That's my side. Now I'm done. I'm not going to change your mind, nor are you going to change mine, so we shall agree to differ (and never visit the same restaurants!) I respect your decision to have a child, and hope you respect my decision to avoid doing so.
Cheers!
Bob
*
Please don't tell me it comes to me magically once I've whelped my own, 'cos that's bull**** and you know it. It's not like a patience gene gets grafted onto one's DNA once the doctor cuts the cord.
