Yorkshire Square on a home level?

[user 246304]

Excellent. Thanks Deere!

Edit: I can see that we go from WLP036 (Dusselldorf) to 0051 (California) here, too. Seems like 037, Yorkshire is like a spy - rarely rears its head!

Here's what I have on the yeast:

WLP037 Yorkshire Square Ale Yeast
This yeast produces a beer that is malty and well balanced. Expect toasty flavors with malt-driven esters. Highly flocculent and a good choice for English-style pale ales, brown ales, and milds.

Attenuation: 68.00-72.00 Flocculation: High
Fermentation Temperature: 65.00-70.00
Alcohol Tolerance: Medium - High (8 - 12%)

 

[madscientist451]

This is great information. Is the clone recipe inside the podcast, then? I mean, for Riggwelter?

Actually, many of the CYBI recipes are on HBT:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=178830#post2070551

 

[user 246304]

Actually, many of the CYBI recipes are on HBT:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=178830#post2070551

OK great, thanks, Madscientist.

 

[user 246304]

Also might change my priorities in terms of what to acquire next. Yeast management might have just ticked up a notch.

 

[madscientist451]

Sanitized Mason jars and a spare fridge is my yeast management. I put a paper label on the jar with a date it was stored and how many runs the yeast has made. Sometimes I'll make a starter, sometimes just chuck it in, half or the whole thing. Not very scientific, but I've turned into a real lazy@ss brewer. If its a high ABV beer, I usually make a starter or brew a small 2 gallon batch and then re-pitch.

 

[user 246304]

Sanitized Mason jars and a spare fridge is my yeast management. I put a paper label on the jar with a date it was stored and how many runs the yeast has made. Sometimes I'll make a starter, sometimes just chuck it in, half or the whole thing. Not very scientific, but I've turned into a real lazy@ss brewer. If its a high ABV beer, I usually make a starter or brew a small 2 gallon batch and then re-pitch.

I'm kind of a lab geek. I love being a yeast ranger (OK. When my wife and I were in London, as we passed the yeast that goes into that satan's spread vegemite, I scraped my business card across the top. We got back to the hotel and allowed it to dry out. I brought it home, and single-colony cultured it up on plates, made successive generations in wort from a sort of "congress mash", and laid down slants.). Had a very nice little lab in place. I more or less stupidly left it all behind when we left Chicago behind.

I love microbiology and in particular, our wonderful little beasties used in brewing. I can't attach it as it's word document, but I'll try to get it into .pdf and attach it here. Basically, devising a QC program for a cask-conditioned brewery of the size to handle a QC staff.

Edit: Nevermind, forgot open office can do it. Here you go, attached.

View attachment Cask Conditioning Brewery - MBS21.pdf

 

[Weezy]

You guys are bad. I'm growing up some West Yorkshire from a frozen tube for a mild. I've never tried open fermentation yet.

A cool basement would be ideal so that you would just need a heat blanket under it.

 

[user 246304]

That's a good idea on the blanket, weezy. I used to use seed starter blankets for my cheeses from time to time. Wonder if that would work, I have 2 of them.

I'm listening to the CYBI with Black Sheep. I'm taking notes like CRAZY. I've been here for a couple hours, and I'm only 30 minutes in because I'm not only taking notes but putting everything on Promash, lol.

 

[McKnuckle]

Speaking of vegemite, a whole bunch of the breweries I visited mentioned that they sold their spent yeast to the people who make marmite! So that's an interesting blend to say the least.

WLP037 - I used it once. It was terrible, very tart and did not clear. Then I went online in the usual quest to find out if I was the only person this had happened to, and learned that others had bad experiences with it also. I believe that might have been why it disappeared from the shelves at least two years ago. People wonder if it's Sam Smith or Black Sheep, mostly, but there is no confirmation.

 

[deere322]

You really can't go wrong with 1469, it's one of my favs.

 

[user 246304]

Sorry, I meant marmite! Fuller's had rows and rows of bins of their skimmed yeast, which were destined for marmite. It's one of these bins I skimmed and worked up when we got back, lol.

Yeah, I saw a lot of complaints on the 037. Trying to look into why. I've seen a lot of slow and stuck ferments, but I don't think I've seen sour, that sucks. And I think I also recall that it didn't clear, which is bizarre - don't you think? "Highly flocculant," etc.? Did you ever get in touch with white labs about it?

On its origin, yeah, just a gut thing but that's my thought to. In listening to the Black Sheep interview though, with him mentioning it's a multi-strain they use, and they have a specific regimen to keep the ratios as consistent as they can, I think that would be really hard on the home level.

 

[user 246304]

You really can't go wrong with 1469, it's one of my favs.

Thanks Deere. Yeah, that was my original choice though I wasn't aware it was from TT. I was just trying to get close to the region and 1469 came up, I liked the description, and added it to my cart. Never used it so thanks for the experience point.

I wonder what the heck is wrong with WLP037 because I'd really like to try it. I probably will, on a small batch, to see what happens. Probably end up with a British geuze, after reading McKnuckle's experience.

I do like First Gold and I thought it aligned nicely with Wyeast's description of "stone-fruit." My experience with FG is a definite apricot, and rich citrusy (as opposed to bright citrus, like the American "C's") quality, a kind of lightly baked fruit. So especially on my stronger bitter, I think the 1469 and FG for late hopping should work well.

 

[LarMoeCur]

If memory serves me correctly...WLP002 and Wyeast 1968 are both the Fuller's yeast.

 

[user 246304]

Oh, McKnuckle, I should mention. My cousin is a California winemaker. So we toured Fuller's and left to their shop next door, to buy some bobbles. I look at a tower they had, out of wine bottles....and it was my cousin. Too much - all the way to London, hit their shop, and the guy I grew up with, his wine, was right there.

Small world.

 

[user 246304]

If memory serves me correctly...WLP002 and Wyeast 1968 are both the Fuller's yeast.

Oh, I didn't know that, Lar. I knew about the 1968 but didn't know about the WLP002. Thanks.

Oh, whoops, I spaced this:

WLP002 English Ale Yeast
A classic ESB strain from one of England's largest independent breweries. This yeast is best suited for English style ales including milds, bitters, porters, and English style stouts. This yeast will leave a beer very clear, and will leave some residual sweetness. The source for the yeast is believed to be Fullers. Attenuation: 63-70% Flocculation: Very High Optimum Fermentation Temperature: 65-68°F Alcohol Tolerance: Medium

 

[LarMoeCur]

No problem...It just happens to be my favorite yeast.

 

[user 246304]

Lar, which one - the 1968 (used this one a lot, back when I last brewed, and liked it very much) or the WLP002? (Never given this one a shot, yet)?

 

[redarmy990]

Thanks Redarmy. I'd imagine we'd all be interested. Would you mind posting it? Can I ask which book it was your dad sent?

Many thanks again. Nice and beautiful country you come from.

Thanks Yorkshire is a fantastic place. The best pint of old peculiar i have ever had was at a bar in Robin hoods bay on Yorkshires east coast.
The book is called Brewing beers like those you buy.
Written by Dave Line
Heres the write up and recipe

Aptly named this brew is unusual,very distinct but pleasantly peculiar
T he dark brew owes much of its charm to the bouquet,flavor and after taste of the priming sugars, My notes record it as one of the best dark draught beers I have tasted and a good example of an old fashioned ale.

5 gallons 6% Alcohol

3 gallon of brewing water for brown ale
4lb dark malt extract
8oz crushed barley
8oz crushed crystal malt
2lb soft dark brown sugar
2oz fuggles
5 saccharin tablets
brewers yeast
3oz black treacle for priming

Boil malt extract malt grains and hops for 45 minutes, carefully strain off the wort into a fermenting bin.
rinse the spent grains and hops with two kettlefuls of hot water, dissolve the main quota of sugar in hot water and add to fermentor top up to final quantity with cold water

When chilled to room temps pitch yeast and saccharin tablets, ferment until activity abates, rack to secondary and keep under airlock pressure for another 7 days

Rack beer from the sediment into a barrel primed with the treacle, allow 7 days conditioning before sampling

Quite an unusual recipe as this is an all grain book but uses malt extract

Hope this helps you guys

 

[McKnuckle]

That recipe is an artifact of its time, I suppose, when homebrewers had far fewer ingredients to work with, and specs like IBU, SRM, and SG were not always provided. Still I appreciate the posting! It's cool to see that treacle is in there, since I plan to use that in my go at OP.

Cheers redarmy990

 

[user 246304]

Redarmy, thanks a ton. I will have to give it a go. Have to say - I listened to that podcast with Alan Dunn of Black Sheep today. I think I wrote every thought the man gave out, lol. Riggwelter is planned shortly after my first brewday in 15+ years. Then, of course, weather turns, and it's OP time (sung to the Miller time tune).

 

[Hanglow]

Whoops, forgot to address the "double dropping" you mention, Hanglow. This is method where you have 2 vessels one above the other, and at some point the beer is "racked" by simply dropping to the lower vessel, right?

Yes, I think it's 16 hours or so - it means the cold break can settle out and fermentiation isn't quite strong enough to mix it into the wort soi they could take the beer off it and it of course aerated the wort again.

Of course with conicals this is unnecessary now and it's not necessary for homebrewers , but I guess there is a use for it in older commercial breweries who would want a cleared beer quicker

There was clip on youtube from brakspear brewery that showed it but I can't find it now . Brakspear Triple used to be bottled conditioned and I tried doing the double drop with that yeast, no idea if it added/took anything away from the beer as I didn't do a side by side . Sadly their beers have got much worse since refresh then Marstons took them over

Also I've had good success culturing up Fullers yeast from Bengal Lancer and 1845 which are both bottled conditioned , unlike their other bottled and canned beers which are pasteurised. I keep meaning to try them side by side with 002 to see how close they are

 

[Hanglow]

Interesting to see that Dave Line recipe, he did like his saccherine tablets those recipes are definitely of their time. He was an immensely important homebrew author for uk homebrewing apparently, although he died almost 40 years ago

 

[Northern_Brewer]

In my humble personal opinion, the Theakston's beers were softer, maltier, creamier, and had more luscious flavors than each of the similar Black Sheep beers.

You can't argue with personal taste, but...if you want soft and creamy, buy some Brie. Yorkshire bitter is about structure and bitterness, it's the beer of miners and Heathcliff, it's Nuits-St-George to the Volnay of southern bitter - the beer of accountants and David Cameron.

Can you tell which side of that particular fence I sit? To be fair, neither of them are quite what they used to be (Special in particular no longer quite lives up to its name in the same way) and Heineken seem to be looking after Theakston more sympathetically than most of the multinationals with a major British ale brand.

T'interwebs generally seem to think WLP037 is Sam Smith's - and that there were real problems with the 2014 release, so if that's when you tried it it might be worth giving it another go. There's also the nagging suspicion that some of the yeast harvested from bottles that ended up in the WL/Wyeast catalogues are actually bottling yeasts - if you're looking to get yeast from specific British breweries then you're much better off going to Brewlabs. According to the internet their standard "Yorkshire" yeast has a melanistic ovine quality, but they never disclose their sources. However they have 1000's of yeasts and if you ask them for the best yeast to clone Riggwelter, you will allegedly get a different yeast than if you ask them for a yeast to clone Old Peculier. According to the internet...

I've also seen it suggested that the standard Muntons dry yeast (not the premium) is from Fullers. As it happens my last brew was with 1968 - it was a weird beer with bog myrtle so I can't say too much about the flavour performance, but it certainly flocced like a rock - I deliberately didn't add any kind of finings and it's still clear as a bell.

Mixing up Marmite and Vegemite, now that's serious, wars have been fought for less....

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Brakspear Triple used to be bottled conditioned and I tried doing the double drop with that yeast, no idea if it added/took anything away from the beer as I didn't do a side by side . Sadly their beers have got much worse since refresh then Marstons took them over

Here's a 1993 article by Michael Jackson on "old" Brakspear :

the New York Times ran an article by John Mortimer naming Brakspear's as the best bitter to be had in England. I assume he meant Brakspear's 'ordinary' bitter (what would Americans have made of that affectionate designation?) as opposed to the stronger 'special'.

If that was Mortimer's choice, I agree. In its delicate, malty sweetness, teasing, yeasty fruitiness, and hoppy bitterness, Brakspear's 'ordinary' is lightly refreshing, gently sociable, more-ish and appetite-arousing; the perfect combination in a bitter. The hoppiness is its salient feature. Mortimer thought it tasted of 'hop fields in the English summer'.

The old yeast was a "symbiosis" with "distant origins" at Mann's. That sounds like the strain that Simpson's of Baldock bought from Mann's in the 1930s and ended up getting spread quite widely across the Greene King group and evolving quite significantly as it did so. Supposedly they're now using some kind of yeast from Marstons.

 

[Hanglow]

Theakston are family owned again aren't they? I think the Theakston brothers rebought it from Scottish + Newcastle a while ago now

I wish Heineken hadn't messed with Deuchars, that was a great go-to pint back in the day. Not so anymore

 

[Northern_Brewer]

It's a bit complicated but the short version is that although the Theakstons make out like they bought the whole company back from S&N in order to help S&N pay for Bulmers, they just bought enough to get a controlling stake but they still benefit heavily from Heineken distribution. It's a win-win - it's worth Heineken making it one of their main ale brands in their pubs (which they've just bought more of), although they use the 100%-owned Caley for their more "trendy" stuff. Yep, shame about Deuchars.

 

[user 246304]

Interesting thread, guys. Any of you know Mr. Jackson's reasoning behind his connecting the method and "creaminess?" Was it just a paean to these makers he respected?

Northern, regarding burgundies, you speak my language btw. The grape is something that makes my blood move. My cousin is a California winemaker and it's the only wine, it's long been the only wine I'll drink anymore. There's the need for finesse and courage in its making - the courage to leave hands off. I have a Volnay producer (Jean-Pierre Charlot) acquaintance and the region truly is gold to me. When we had our restaurant, my wife won the National Fellow to attend the International Pinot Noir Celebration, Oregon, as a guest, where she met a million wonderful makers, from all over the world. So keep talking. That is, if we're not talking beer.

 

[user 246304]

Yes, I think it's 16 hours or so - it means the cold break can settle out and fermentiation isn't quite strong enough to mix it into the wort soi they could take the beer off it and it of course aerated the wort again.

Of course with conicals this is unnecessary now and it's not necessary for homebrewers , but I guess there is a use for it in older commercial breweries who would want a cleared beer quicker

There was clip on youtube from brakspear brewery that showed it but I can't find it now . Brakspear Triple used to be bottled conditioned and I tried doing the double drop with that yeast, no idea if it added/took anything away from the beer as I didn't do a side by side . Sadly their beers have got much worse since refresh then Marstons took them over

Also I've had good success culturing up Fullers yeast from Bengal Lancer and 1845 which are both bottled conditioned , unlike their other bottled and canned beers which are pasteurised. I keep meaning to try them side by side with 002 to see how close they are

I'll try to track some clips down, thanks, Hanglow. I wish I could harvest those yeasts, but everything we get here has to be dead. Have to do the only "business card harvest" method and bring it back.

 

[user 246304]

Hang, found it - right on Brakspear's site. Very cool! Look up the fermentation video, little over halfway through. Just a simple, gravity drop to the vessel below, where it sits about 3 days, then proceeds as per normal. They said they still used it on their bitter and another one I spaced. Here it is.

Edit: Just watched them all, nice set of vids. I brought back another nice video, VHS unfortunately, from Hook Norton, but it has been lost over several moves. Don't believe the brewery produces one any longer.

 

[Hanglow]

It's a bit complicated but the short version is that although the Theakstons make out like they bought the whole company back from S&N in order to help S&N pay for Bulmers, they just bought enough to get a controlling stake but they still benefit heavily from Heineken distribution. It's a win-win - it's worth Heineken making it one of their main ale brands in their pubs (which they've just bought more of), although they use the 100%-owned Caley for their more "trendy" stuff. Yep, shame about Deuchars.

Cheers, that makes a lot of sense

The Heineken owned pubs in scotland are rather poor by and large I think, would benefit from more theakstons in them