Yet another controller question

[bornandraisedlv]

So I have made the partial jump to electric brewing with putting a 1650w 120v element in my hlt that houses my herms coil. I’m controlling that element with a non ssr bayrite unit and am thinking I made a mistake by going the cheap route here.

So with that said I’ve been looking at some of the Auberns controllers / diy kits and looking for a little direction.

I am thinking I can just piece together a 120v controller box that houses an EZBoil, ssr, 2 15amp sockets for pumps and a 25amp socket for my element. Would just use the EZBoil for mashing purposes as I currently don’t have an accessible 240 power supply in my house.

Just wondering if the $200 ish is worth the effort or just get an inkbird ipb-16 and stat manual mode?

 

[tofuguy]

The funny thing, as I am reading I was thinking the Inkbird for you then had to laugh when i read the last question. I will suggest thinking where do you plan to go with this setup? If you plan to add to it in the next couple years, maybe building your own setup is preferred then you can reuse parts. Now if you are happy with ending this build here, maybe the Inkbird is the right answer. Sorry to propose a question to a question, but that may help you in a decision. Both options are ok, I went with path of building my own "cheap" controller without pump control, then built upon that over time. (Over almost 1.5 years)

 

[BeardedBrews]

I like having the ability to get my strike water heating up and holding at temp without having to babysit it. It means I'm able to work on other stuff, or get distracted, without overshooting and having to stand around waiting for it to cool.

Since you're set up to do HERMS you'll get even more benefit not having to babysit during the mash. Even if you don't use the fancier step control version it will be nice to set it once after you dough in and not have to deal with it again until mash-out.

As to the value question on $200, that's a tough one. I am cheap, but that means I've bought parts of my system two or three times. The idea of buy once is slowly starting to get through my head and I don't regret at all upgrading to the ezboil now that I've tried it.

 

[bornandraisedlv]

The funny thing, as I am reading I was thinking the Inkbird for you then had to laugh when i read the last question. I will suggest thinking where do you plan to go with this setup? If you plan to add to it in the next couple years, maybe building your own setup is preferred then you can reuse parts. Now if you are happy with ending this build here, maybe the Inkbird is the right answer. Sorry to propose a question to a question, but that may help you in a decision. Both options are ok, I went with path of building my own "cheap" controller without pump control, then built upon that over time. (Over almost 1.5 years)

That is where I am torn. I do see in the next two years of adding 240 to my brew station in the garage as well as in my basement. At some point I will move to indoor brewing and electric as it is just brutal brewing in Minneapolis winters. My current process is mashing in my kitchen on a Friday night and doing the boil on Saturday morning. This gets me inside for half of the process. The concern I have about building a controller now is how will electric brewing technology change by the time I actually move to full electric. On the same note I do not want to throw $100 at an ipg-16 when that's half way there to a BIAB style controller box, that will also get me half way to a 240 3v set up as well. I think in the long run it will probably be best to start building my controller box now knowing that the current EZboil has more features than I will probably use.

I like having the ability to get my strike water heating up and holding at temp without having to babysit it. It means I'm able to work on other stuff, or get distracted, without overshooting and having to stand around waiting for it to cool.

Since you're set up to do HERMS you'll get even more benefit not having to babysit during the mash. Even if you don't use the fancier step control version it will be nice to set it once after you dough in and not have to deal with it again until mash-out.

As to the value question on $200, that's a tough one. I am cheap, but that means I've bought parts of my system two or three times. The idea of buy once is slowly starting to get through my head and I don't regret at all upgrading to the ezboil now that I've tried it.

The current controller I have is a bayrite which is basically an ipg-16 without ssr. So I am able to set my mash strike water and walk away, same as when I am mashing. I bought the bayrite without reading up enough and skimped out on $50 and going with the ipg-16 instead, that has ssr. So now I am worried about the bayrite failing mid brew do to cycling to fast.

I would like to be able to set up some mash steps and mash out automatically, not as concerned with or not sure I would even use the function of controlling my pumps other than a simple on off switch.

Like you mention it is best to spend more once than less multiple times. I think I will just spread the build out over a little bit of time and go for it.

Here is what I am thinking to get me going:

Ezboil - DSPR320
40A AC SSR
Pump Switch x2 - Single Pole Single Throw Rocker Switch 120V 10A1.8
Power Switch - Single Pole Single Throw Rocker Switch 125V 20A
Pump Socket x 2 - 120V 15A US Socket, Panel Mount, NEMA 5-15R
Heater Socket 5-20r nema
Temp Prob connector Panel mount connector for RTD sensor
Temp Probe - Liquid tight RTD sensor, 4 in, 1/2 NPT Thread
Panel Mount Cartridge Fuse Holder
Power in - 120V 15A Receptacle, Panel Mount, IEC 320-C14
Power Cord - C13 to NEMA 5-15P, 14awg, 10ft

Time to do some research on the actual build and wiring....

 

[tofuguy]

The concern I have about building a controller now is how will electric brewing technology change by the time I actually move to full electric.

This is where I noted the following...

If you plan to add to it in the next couple years, maybe building your own setup is preferred then you can reuse parts.

Although subtle, I do agree time needs to be a factor here. Be sure to think out what kettle you will want to use your EZBoil for. If Mash, you may want to buy the version that can program step mashing. That was a nice upgrade that I went with over the original EZBoil.

 

[bornandraisedlv]

Actually on the wiring topic, any suggestions on where to get a solid diagram to run the above set up? I've searched google for a few hours now and see lots out there but nothing that is really exactly what I am looking to do. When it come to electrical I struggle, Ive tried taking plans very similar to what I am doing and alter them but get lost haha. It seems like a pretty straight forward plan with no emergency stops...

 

[tofuguy]

Doug over here has a whole bunch of them. Just take a gander around.

 

[BeardedBrews]

Actually on the wiring topic, any suggestions on where to get a solid diagram to run the above set up? I

Doug over here has a whole bunch of them.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...o=relevance&g=1&c[node]=170&c[user][0]=189994


Back to your parts list, everything in there looks just fine. I don't personally think the removable "power in" cord adds much value and it complicates the assembly, but many people like that approach. Similarly I chose to make the element "power out" cord permanently attached to the controller and just disconnect from the element at the kettle. I don't know what your element configuration is so this might not be an option for you. Either way, having those two cables always attached to the controller box has not been a hassle for me at all, it is much more useful to be able to easily disconnect the wires from the kettle (for cleaning).

Ultimately it would be pretty cheap/easy to upgrade that parts list to 240v if you wanted that in the future.

Final notes on cost creep:
With all of this I found that cost creep starts becoming an issue. "Doing NEMA Plugs only adds $14/each" ends up being $50 in the total project, "the super-programmable Auber is only $40 more", "switching to a proper NEMA metal enclosure over a plastic one from Bud Industries only adds $30 -> upgrading this metal NEMA to a stainless version only adds $50"

It's easy to turn a $200 controller into a $400 one. This is fine if what you really want is a $400 controller, you have saved yourself from throwing away the $200 one later. My experience was that my original <$100 ammo- can controller was really just a bit crappier than I wanted, but my $250 controller turned out great and I can't see any value going from that to a $500 version for my process.

 

[doug293cz]

If you are thinking of eventually going to 240V, it is possible to build a "bilingual" controller that can be plugged into either a 120V or 240V outlet (using a pigtail adapter) if you plan ahead and use wires, and other components, rated for the higher voltages and currents you will need at 240V. If you know where you want to end up, you can get there without taking any detours by planning ahead (buying components you have to upgrade later.) It's not too difficult to modify designs, if you need something not quite the same as what I have already done. One thing to consider is whether you want to include a "safe start" interlock that will prevent elements or pumps from coming on immediately when you power up the panel (cause you forgot to turn something off at the end of your last brew, or a switch got bumped.) Doesn't necessarily add additional components to implement a safe start, but does need some additional wires, and double pole switches.

Here's something along the lines of what you mentioned above (would need to add a switch for the second pump outlet, doesn't have safe start):

Brew on

 

[bornandraisedlv]

If you are thinking of eventually going to 240V, it is possible to build a "bilingual" controller that can be plugged into either a 120V or 240V outlet (using a pigtail adapter) if you plan ahead and use wires, and other components, rated for the higher voltages and currents you will need at 240V. If you know where you want to end up, you can get there without taking any detours by planning ahead (buying components you have to upgrade later.) It's not too difficult to modify designs, if you need something not quite the same as what I have already done. One thing to consider is whether you want to include a "safe start" interlock that will prevent elements or pumps from coming on immediately when you power up the panel (cause you forgot to turn something off at the end of your last brew, or a switch got bumped.) Doesn't necessarily add additional components to implement a safe start, but does need some additional wires, and double pole switches.

Here's something along the lines of what you mentioned above (would need to add a switch for the second pump outlet, doesn't have safe start):

View attachment 606767

Brew on

Thanks for all of the help! Greatly appreciated!!

And thanks to all for the insight. It’s great fun to learn this stuff for me. Still not sure which way in going to go hehe but at least I’m learning!

 

[bornandraisedlv]

If you are thinking of eventually going to 240V, it is possible to build a "bilingual" controller that can be plugged into either a 120V or 240V outlet (using a pigtail adapter) if you plan ahead and use wires, and other components, rated for the higher voltages and currents you will need at 240V. If you know where you want to end up, you can get there without taking any detours by planning ahead (buying components you have to upgrade later.) It's not too difficult to modify designs, if you need something not quite the same as what I have already done. One thing to consider is whether you want to include a "safe start" interlock that will prevent elements or pumps from coming on immediately when you power up the panel (cause you forgot to turn something off at the end of your last brew, or a switch got bumped.) Doesn't necessarily add additional components to implement a safe start, but does need some additional wires, and double pole switches.

Here's something along the lines of what you mentioned above (would need to add a switch for the second pump outlet, doesn't have safe start):

View attachment 606767

Brew on

So I have this wired up about 90% and just waiting for my L14-30 to arrive tomorrow and I can wire in all the power in / power out in the box itself. It does bring up a question though in regards to the 5-15 to L14-30 adaptor cord.

Basically in this drawing, it is turning the L2 wiring in my box to a second Neutral?

If that is the case, if and when I make the move to 240 I will need to change anything currently on that L2 to the Neutral?

Just want to make sure I am understanding fully.

I also made a mistake and purchased 120v led indicators for power on and element firing. So will need to change those if I ever change to 240v.

Thanks for any input!

 

[doug293cz]

So I have this wired up about 90% and just waiting for my L14-30 to arrive tomorrow and I can wire in all the power in / power out in the box itself. It does bring up a question though in regards to the 5-15 to L14-30 adaptor cord.

Basically in this drawing, it is turning the L2 wiring in my box to a second Neutral?

If that is the case, if and when I make the move to 240 I will need to change anything currently on that L2 to the Neutral?

Just want to make sure I am understanding fully.

I also made a mistake and purchased 120v led indicators for power on and element firing. So will need to change those if I ever change to 240v.

Thanks for any input!

Yes, L2 becomes a neutral, since the two neutrals are tied together in the pigtail, they are all one net electrically.

No, the only thing on the L2/neutral is the element and element contactor.

Two of the three lamps in the diagram are 120V lamps wired between L1 and neutral. The only 240V lamp is the element firing light. A 240V lamp will work a reduced brightness on 120V, but a 120V lamp will likely blow-out on 240V, so anything between the L1 & L2/neutral needs to be 240V if running on 240V.

Brew on

 

[bornandraisedlv]

Thanks to all that helped on this, especially Doug, wouldn’t have been possible with out the assistance. Finally “done”’ with the build, though it will get a paint job at some point. Probably next winter when hibernation sets back in here...