Yeast Washing Illustrated

[IslandLizard]

I started a batch of sour blond ale last week using Wyeast 3278 Lambic Blend. Will Bernie's yeast washing illustrated method replicate a blend of yeasts, wild yeasts, and bacteria such as Wyeast 3278?

No it won't, but it's not due to the "washing."
BTW, yeast washing is a whole different process, the method Bernie describes is actually called yeast "rinsing."

The composition of blends change during fermentation (and storage) as the microorganism populations it contains grow (and autolyze) at different rates. Lactobacillus (bacteria) multiplies much faster than Pedio or the yeast.
Brett is a notoriously slow grower, but given enough time she will be the last girl standing.* She'll even metabolize autolyzed (dead) yeast and bacteria, turning them into yummy flavor and aroma compounds. All together that may take 3 years.

* Or as someone once so eloquently said:
"Brett may not win the battle, but she'll win the war!"

 

[thefigure5]

No it won't, but it's not due to the "washing."
BTW, yeast washing is a whole different process, the method Bernie describes is actually called yeast "rinsing."

The composition of blends change during fermentation (and storage) as the microorganism populations it contains grow (and autolyze) at different rates. Lactobacillus (bacteria) multiplies much faster than Pedio or the yeast.
Brett is a notoriously slow grower, but given enough time she will be the last girl standing.* She'll even metabolize autolyzed (dead) yeast and bacteria, turning them into yummy flavor and aroma compounds. All together that may take 3 years.

* Or as someone once so eloquently said:
"Brett may not win the battle, but she'll win the war!"

I figured this was the case from other comments I've seen. The blend wouldn't stay true.

This maybe isn't the right tread to ask unrelated questions, but here goes. I started the Wyeast 3278 Lambic Blend batch on 5/13/2020, and understand it needs to age as much as six months. It's still in the primary in the 66 - 68 degrees F temperature range. What are your thoughts on moving the temperature range up a few degrees at some point?

 

[IslandLizard]

This maybe isn't the right tread to ask unrelated questions, but here goes. I started the Wyeast 3278 Lambic Blend batch on 5/13/2020, and understand it needs to age as much as six months. It's still in the primary in the 66 - 68 degrees F temperature range. What are your thoughts on moving the temperature range up a few degrees at some point?

It's been 5 weeks after pitching, it should be done with the primary fermentation.
I'd rack/transfer to a keg if you have one (or a carboy filled to an inch under the bung) and move it to an area in the low 60s for the duration of maturing.
I prefer a keg with a shortened dip tube as I can easily push out a sample to test in a few months, while she's sitting there, sealed tight. You need to vent her from time to time (put it on your calendar!) or stick an airlock with stopper in the PRV hole after removing the PRV valve.

 

[thefigure5]

It is in a carboy, where I was planning to leave it. I could move it to another carboy, but there would be more than an inch of headroom. I can lower the temperature where it is.

 

[tc53]

Every description I've read of this process (which I've done a half dozen times) says that after I've added some (.5-1 gallon) sterilized water to the yeast/trub cake left after racking from primary, and given it a couple of minutes of swirling/shaking, I should see two layers develop, one a lighter, creamy color that is yeast, and, below that, a darker layer that is supposed to be trub. When I do that, I get three layers, one that is sort of a clear amber (which I assume is mostly the water I've added), then a middle layer that is darker than a bottom layer that is sort of creamy and light. The instructions say to pour off the top, creamy layer, but they are not clear as to whether I'm supposed to decant the top layer of mostly water or pour that with the middle layer. Even though my middle layer is always a bit darker than the bottom layer, can I assume that that layer is, in fact, mostly yeast?

After I've poured off the top two layers (lately, I've been decanting about half of that top layer of mostly water) into a large, sterilized jar, the instructions say to let that settle for an hour or more. They say I should then see three layers. On top should be a pale mixture of water with some yeast. The middle layer should be thinner and more solid white. This is, supposedly, almost pure yeast. Finally, at the bottom is supposed to be another, darker layer that is almost all trub. Again here, I get a pale top layer, a middle layer that is a bit darker than a bottom layer that is whiter. Both of the bottom two layers are about the same thickness. After it has all settled, I am supposed to carefully pour off the top two layers into 3-4 sterilized pint jars. Here, if you have used 3/4 or a full gallon of sterilized water to start with, there's definitely not room for more than about 3/4 of the top layer (some yeast, but mostly water). And by the time I've poured that off, the bottom two layers are getting pretty mixed together.
So I am hoping for some help/advice.
Should I be decanting off some of the mostly water layer in both steps?
Should I assume that the middle layer (in both steps) is, in fact, mostly yeast even though it is never lighter in color than the bottom layer?
Thanks for any help you can offer.

 

[thefigure5]

Every description I've read of this process (which I've done a half dozen times) says that after I've added some (.5-1 gallon) sterilized water to the yeast/trub cake left after racking from primary, and given it a couple of minutes of swirling/shaking, I should see two layers develop, one a lighter, creamy color that is yeast, and, below that, a darker layer that is supposed to be trub. When I do that, I get three layers, one that is sort of a clear amber (which I assume is mostly the water I've added), then a middle layer that is darker than a bottom layer that is sort of creamy and light. The instructions say to pour off the top, creamy layer, but they are not clear as to whether I'm supposed to decant the top layer of mostly water or pour that with the middle layer. Even though my middle layer is always a bit darker than the bottom layer, can I assume that that layer is, in fact, mostly yeast?

After I've poured off the top two layers (lately, I've been decanting about half of that top layer of mostly water) into a large, sterilized jar, the instructions say to let that settle for an hour or more. They say I should then see three layers. On top should be a pale mixture of water with some yeast. The middle layer should be thinner and more solid white. This is, supposedly, almost pure yeast. Finally, at the bottom is supposed to be another, darker layer that is almost all trub. Again here, I get a pale top layer, a middle layer that is a bit darker than a bottom layer that is whiter. Both of the bottom two layers are about the same thickness. After it has all settled, I am supposed to carefully pour off the top two layers into 3-4 sterilized pint jars. Here, if you have used 3/4 or a full gallon of sterilized water to start with, there's definitely not room for more than about 3/4 of the top layer (some yeast, but mostly water). And by the time I've poured that off, the bottom two layers are getting pretty mixed together.
So I am hoping for some help/advice.
Should I be decanting off some of the mostly water layer in both steps?
Should I assume that the middle layer (in both steps) is, in fact, mostly yeast even though it is never lighter in color than the bottom layer?
Thanks for any help you can offer.

I have not done yeast rinsing or yeast washing, but it is interesting to me. It might be informative to include pictures of what you are seeing. You describe colors and values (light/dark), and it might be good for folks to see what you're seeing.

In the original posts in this thread, the bottom two "layers" look similar in color, and I couldn't say one is darker than the other. The point of letting the mixture in the fermenter sit for 20 minutes or so is, I think, that while the yeast will mostly stay in suspension in the watery liquid, the other material or "trub" mostly will fall out of suspension. When poring into the large jar, the idea is to leave most if not all of that bottom layer behind.

As before, once the mixture is in the large jar, any trub in the mix will fall out of suspension first, and after the 20 minutes or so, the watery liquid and yeast still in suspension can be poured off into the small jars being careful again to leave the bottom layer behind.

In your case I think you wait longer than 20 minutes, and the bottom two layers are about the same thickness. Here again it would be good to see a picture. You may have more liquid (water and possibly beer that wasn't racked off) on hand. Any purely clear liquid would have little yeast. The original post says to fill up the small jars to full before sealing them, and you might need some of that liquid just to fill up the bulk space in the small jars. Maybe decanting and reserving it in a sterilized jar would be the way to go. You could fill up the small jars to full using the reserved liquid if needed.

 

[thefigure5]

It's been 5 weeks after pitching, it should be done with the primary fermentation.
I'd rack/transfer to a keg if you have one (or a carboy filled to an inch under the bung) and move it to an area in the low 60s for the duration of maturing.
I prefer a keg with a shortened dip tube as I can easily push out a sample to test in a few months, while she's sitting there, sealed tight. You need to vent her from time to time (put it on your calendar!) or stick an airlock with stopper in the PRV hole after removing the PRV valve.

Over the last few days I have been lowering the temperature to the 60-62F range. It isn't fermenting anymore. There is a ring of foam still around the edge as you can see.

 

[IslandLizard]

Over the last few days I have been lowering the temperature to the 60-62F range. It isn't fermenting anymore. There is a ring of foam still around the edge as you can see.
View attachment 686383

That looks like a krausen ring, the sticky deposit left behind where the foamy krausen once was, and has since fallen.

Judging by the clarity of your beer and the thick yeast/trub cake on the bottom, you're ready to package this beauty.

 

[IslandLizard]

Over the last few days I have been lowering the temperature to the 60-62F range.

What do you want to achieve with that?

 

[thefigure5]

What do you want to achieve with that?

(This is off the topic of rinsing yeast, but it is where this conversation started, so hear is my answer. I like the original post, and want to try it sometime. This writing pertains mostly to something else.)

I missed your question until just a bit ago, then thought I would wait until the batch was bottled and I had a chance to sample the finished product. I lowered the temperature to let the beer age for six months in the primary fermenter. It was sealed really well with a blow-off tube, and bubbles kept coming through. The temperature controller failed, and the temperature dropped to below 50F, which maybe wasn't a bad thing in and of itself. But the water dried out of the glass where the end of the blow-off was sitting, exposing the beer to oxygen, and CO2 generation seemed to have stopped. A pellicle had formed on the surface of the beer; I am not sure if that could have protected it from oxygen. This was at about five months of aging. I corrected the temperature and replaced the dried up water. Then in trying to locate an electrical open problem at the house, unwittingly turned off the power to this particular circuit, and the temperature went up to about 70F for maybe a day.

To bottle, I hydrated 2.5 grams of EC-1118 yeast, boiled 2.6 ounces of corn sugar in about a pint of water, then when cooled, added these things to the bottling bucket after transferring the beer. Stirring gently at the beginning and after every few bottles, it yielded 21 pints.

There was an additional very partial bottle I sampled after one week. It had some off-flavor, I guess bitterness would describe it. Oxidized I'm sure, but not undrinkable. After two weeks I sampled a full bottle. It was lightly carbonated and was mildly sour with a nice funky taste. It may be a little oxidized.

It was an experience. Still learning from it. I want to try simpler sours that don't take so long, and maybe a saison next summer using some other Wyeast liquid yeast and try to rinse that yeast after the first batch to use for another batch or two, etc.

 

[breitung1]

When getting ready to use the saved yeast, why use wort? Can i just use household sugar, or will that not work or cause only certain yeasts to propagate?

and can you say how much wort (or household sugar) in how much water is ideal for a starter?

- apologies if these have already been asked - this thread is ginormous!