Yeast Washing Illustrated

[sikkingj]

So would washing my yeast allow me to use it indefinitely, or is this a one-to-two time thing?

It depends on how you wash. If you make a starter and split it, previous to it fermenting your 5 gallons of beer, my understanding is that this is a 0 generation yeast batch and therefore (theoretically infinite). Having said this, I've never used more than two generations because of problems (the inability) to store yeast for a long time and often using various strains of yeast for different batches/recipes I'm brewing..


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[WSJ]

(Sorry for the bad focus. Yeast is under a layer of water )

Should I be worried about that darker are there?

 

[brewkinger]

After reading this sticky and grimacing at $7.50 per smack pack, I decided to take the initiative.



My follow up question is since I am guesstimating about 100mL of washed yeast (all 3 combined).

At the default setting in most yeast calculators, I am to assume 10-20% non yeast material in there.
So that means between 80-90mL of yeast?

The default 2.4 billion cells per mL gives me between 192 - 216 billion cells; which is plenty for 5-6 gallons of 1.050-ish ale.

Am I safe to assume the 2.4 billion/mL value and the 15% non yeast?

Should I combine all 3 jars into one?
OR

Combine the 2 smaller ones and end up with (2) 50mL jars and make starters when needed?


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[bristela]

After reading this sticky and grimacing at $7.50 per smack pack, I decided to take the initiative.

View attachment 200381

My follow up question is since I am guesstimating about 100mL of washed yeast (all 3 combined).

At the default setting in most yeast calculators, I am to assume 10-20% non yeast material in there.
So that means between 80-90mL of yeast?

The default 2.4 billion cells per mL gives me between 192 - 216 billion cells; which is plenty for 5-6 gallons of 1.050-ish ale.

Am I safe to assume the 2.4 billion/mL value and the 15% non yeast?

Should I combine all 3 jars into one?
OR

Combine the 2 smaller ones and end up with (2) 50mL jars and make starters when needed?


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I always make a starter culture first thing in the morning of brew day, so it will have been growing for at least six hours before I pitch it. I've made starter cultures with less than you have in your smallest there and had no problems whatsoever.

 

[bzwyatt]

Yes, I'd just make a starter with one of those, especially if you wait longer than a week or two, max, before using it.

 

[yyvjpv]

Thanks for the great tutorial. Quick question for someone who is quite new to all of this, how long could a keep a harvested yeast going? I am going to bottle tomorrow and am thinking about keeping the yeast, but it is an Irish Ale yeast and I don't know that I'd be making another stout or porter in the immediate future (I have some other things on the books first) so could I keep it around until I need it (feeding it the occasional pinch of sugar) or would it start to degrade in quality?

 

[catdaddy66]

Thanks for the great tutorial. Quick question for someone who is quite new to all of this, how long could a keep a harvested yeast going? I am going to bottle tomorrow and am thinking about keeping the yeast, but it is an Irish Ale yeast and I don't know that I'd be making another stout or porter in the immediate future (I have some other things on the books first) so could I keep it around until I need it (feeding it the occasional pinch of sugar) or would it start to degrade in quality?

Yeast can be kept refrigerated for a year or more and be revived for brewing. Over time the cells break down so there are fewer and fewer viable cells, so starters with a couple of steps can replenish the numbers so you avoid under pitching. I used a starter to grow my 9 month old us-04 yeast and it worked very well.

They can also be harvested thru double digit generations, so keep harvesting after each batch to save a little money!



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[bristela]

Thanks for the great tutorial. Quick question for someone who is quite new to all of this, how long could a keep a harvested yeast going? I am going to bottle tomorrow and am thinking about keeping the yeast, but it is an Irish Ale yeast and I don't know that I'd be making another stout or porter in the immediate future (I have some other things on the books first) so could I keep it around until I need it (feeding it the occasional pinch of sugar) or would it start to degrade in quality?

I haven't ever keep yeast for a year, but certainly for several months and had no problems at all. I would say that I always prefer to collect yeast from the primary fermenter rather than the secondary as they should be happier and healthier. If you're not doing a two stage fermentation then I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[fearwig]

Building a portion back up with a starter periodically will give you proportionally younger cells and keep things going longer--though it will eventually accentuate any issues with undesirable selection.

To clarify that, I can say that when I blend WLP001 and WLP550 the balance is nice and mild (001ish) until the 550 starts to "win" after a couple of generations. I guess it's a more aggressive procreator. It's also a good flocculator so it may be getting reclaimed in higher proportion. The same thing happens to a lesser extent within a strain--strains aren't homogeneous, they're just family and have roughly similar traits, and eventually one wing of the family with slightly more or less of this or that trait might start to take over until you have a different yeast on your hands. I have never reclaimed a single strain long enough for that to happen. I hear people say double digits, I think you could probably go even longer. Eventually when you've done it 12 times it doesn't cost you that much to start again, though, just so long as you aren't buying fresh yeast every brew (suckers!).

 

[msa8967]

I am planning on making 3 higher gravity IPAs in a row (each 1 month apart) for my next several brews. These will be 8.0% ABV and I would like to know if I can wash the yeast from one batch to use for the next IPA. Is 8% ABV too high to try reusing the yeast?

 

[bolus14]

I think you and your yeast would be better served if you build a large starter and split that into three "samples" and use each sample for each brew.

8% is higher than most would recommend washing from.

 

[msa8967]

I think you and your yeast would be better served if you build a large starter and split that into three "samples" and use each sample for each brew.

8% is higher than most would recommend washing from.

OK...thanks.

 

[beerman123]

Great information, thanks for sharing and the pictures made all the difference!


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[Vinnychuck]

Excellent post my man.

 

[dmarc85]

There is certainly something to say about washing yeast. I just had a fifth gen wlp007 strain tear through my stone clone is three days. I'm certain I can use it a few more times successfully.

Just imagine if I grew a big batch off the original vial and split that into 3-4 starters then again on successive batches. We're talking +20 batches of beer off a $7 vial without incident.

I just put my washed yeast into empty beer bottles and then just pitch them at room temp up to a year and a half later! With a good shake and nutrient, I get a crazy ferm within 6-12hrs every time


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[TrustyOlJohnson]

Ive had excellent results too. I see it as one if the easiest ways to save $$ brewing and create great beer at the same time!!


"Sometimes Im right half of the time ...."

 

[Tegra]

Just about to try this....

I have read (Eureka Brewing) that adding salt to make the solution isotonic (0.9% salt) will preserve the yeast for longer.

Any comments?

I was thinking of just adding enough salt to each jar to reach the .9% amount. As I will be making a starter to regrow the little bit of salt should have been reduced to a point where it should not affect the wort.

Tom


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[TrustyOlJohnson]

Just about to try this....

I have read (Eureka Brewing) that adding salt to make the solution isotonic (0.9% salt) will preserve the yeast for longer.

Any comments?

I was thinking of just adding enough salt to each jar to reach the .9% amount. As I will be making a starter to regrow the little bit of salt should have been reduced to a point where it should not affect the wort.

Tom


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I talked to a Wyeast rep about washing yeast with this process and maintaining vitality of the yeast. He is a homebrewer himself and recommended adding 1/8 to 1/4 tsp DAP to the sterile water to create an environment that is healthier for the washed yeast. Ive been doing that and it seems it is as good or better than without it.


"Sometimes Im right half of the time..."

 

[bristela]

Just posted a thread about reviving yeast collected using this protocol after ~13 months:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/record-reawakening-refridgerated-yeast-486614/

Anybody else done similar? Longer?

 

[scrub0bk]

so i'm still a little confused on this - i plan on using the yeast bay vermont ale and since its expensive i want to try the washing method.

If i follow the first post, after i fill the large mason jar - with i assume to be the slurry that was sitting in the carboy, am i just aiming to pull the liquid off the stuff that separates in the large mason jar, leaving the "solids" behind?

I always thought that the solid part at the bottom was the yeast and we wanted that - not the water or slurry that we create.

sorry if this is a repeat question i just want to make sure i do it right and didn't find anything immediately and nothing seemed to clarify, thanks!

 

[brewski09]

I'd go the route of making a starter and harvesting several small batches from that. Next round, use one if your small batches as a starter. When you have 2 left, start over. Every time you make a starter, it's a new generation and the Vermont ale yeast is highly sensitive to generations (estimated 6-8 professionally max). Love the yeast profile but it's too finicky for me right now or I would be doing this.


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[scrub0bk]

I'd go the route of making a starter and harvesting several small batches from that. Next round, use one if your small batches as a starter. When you have 2 left, start over. Every time you make a starter, it's a new generation and the Vermont ale yeast is highly sensitive to generations (estimated 6-8 professionally max). Love the yeast profile but it's too finicky for me right now or I would be doing this.


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So just instead of pitching, make a starter with the yeast vial and harvest from that starter to create multiple "vials" and then just pitch?

The harvesting part - same kind of question, but with this should i just split the starter and pull off the "wort" that i've added.

My confusion is just on what part of the washed yeast i actually want to keep, is it the liquid part, or the more solid part that settles?

thanks for all your help

 

[catdaddy66]

There is viable yeast in both the solids that settle to the bottom and also in suspension in the liquid. It is "cleaner" to save the liquid only, but many people also pitch the entire slurry, solids included. I try to minimize the amount of solids in my washed yeast but I won't worry over it getting in my sample.


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[scrub0bk]

There is viable yeast in both the solids that settle to the bottom and also in suspension in the liquid. It is "cleaner" to save the liquid only, but many people also pitch the entire slurry, solids included. I try to minimize the amount of solids in my washed yeast but I won't worry over it getting in my sample.


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Got it - so the ideal would be to get the liquid because of the yeast that is suspended in it and maximize that to pitch. i think i'm understanding

 

[bristela]

Got it - so the ideal would be to get the liquid because of the yeast that is suspended in it and maximize that to pitch. i think i'm understanding

My understanding is that ale yeast is a top fermenter, so while active it will be found primarily toward the surface. Everything else (hop residue, dead yeast, etc.) will tend to fall to the bottom. This isn't to say you won't find viable yeast in the bottom, rather they will be at their most concentrated in the suspension.

This presumably only works for ale yeast. Not sure what you'd have to do to wash bottom fermenters like lager yeast.

 

[scrub0bk]

My understanding is that ale yeast is a top fermenter, so while active it will be found primarily toward the surface. Everything else (hop residue, dead yeast, etc.) will tend to fall to the bottom. This isn't to say you won't find viable yeast in the bottom, rather they will be at their most concentrated in the suspension.

This presumably only works for ale yeast. Not sure what you'd have to do to wash bottom fermenters like lager yeast.

Exactly what i needed - thank you!

 

[brewski09]

So just instead of pitching, make a starter with the yeast vial and harvest from that starter to create multiple "vials" and then just pitch?



The harvesting part - same kind of question, but with this should i just split the starter and pull off the "wort" that i've added.



My confusion is just on what part of the washed yeast i actually want to keep, is it the liquid part, or the more solid part that settles?



thanks for all your help

The multiple vials are for future starters. Make enough to capture these vials and have your pitch able starter. Always have a backup in case your last one doesn't work. I just know Vermont ale yeast (aka Conan) is a PIA yeast so I don't recommend washing. When your attenuation starts to drop, the east is done. This may happen very quickly generationally with this yeast.

You are supposed to let trub and protein matter drop out when washing and keep everything else. At least this is my understanding.


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[Hanso]

Just want to clear up the confusion a bit, hopeful ly. There is no such thing as top fermenting vs bottom fermenting. Ales and lagers both ferment while in suspension. For whatever reason the term "top fermenting" got applied to ales in the past and it became misunderstood to mean that the fermentation happens at the top of the vessel (or bottom of vessel for lagers). This is simply not accurate. Harvesting any yeast works the same way. You build up a population of healthy yeast and get them in suspension, let the wort sit while the trub settles out, decant, and let that portion settle out the yeast that was previously in suspension. Hope that helps summarize. You can do this same thing for washing lager yeast, ale yeast, brett, any yeast...

 

[bristela]

Just want to clear up the confusion a bit, hopeful ly. There is no such thing as top fermenting vs bottom fermenting. Ales and lagers both ferment while in suspension. For whatever reason the term "top fermenting" got applied to ales in the past and it became misunderstood to mean that the fermentation happens at the top of the vessel (or bottom of vessel for lagers). This is simply not accurate. Harvesting any yeast works the same way. You build up a population of healthy yeast and get them in suspension, let the wort sit while the trub settles out, decant, and let that portion settle out the yeast that was previously in suspension. Hope that helps summarize. You can do this same thing for washing lager yeast, ale yeast, brett, any yeast...

Thanks for that. You learn a new thing every day. I guess that's the point of a forum like this. "Top fermenter" really is a misleading term then. Just as well that this misunderstanding doesn't change the fact that we're separating things by how quickly they sediment with this procedure. Also good to know that if I ever decide to try making lager that I'll be able to recover the yeast in the same way. I'm curious now about how the term "top fermenter" came into being.

 

[zamo27]

can i vacuum pack the washed yeast in vacuum pouches with an industrial food grade vacuum machine.
vac packed foods last 3 times longer before its spoils so this might help the life span of the yeast as well ?!
could this work