Yeast Washing Illustrated

[natewv]

Ok so I just moved on to not using a secondary, and bottled a batch of Stone RIPA plus kegged a batch of Burning River PA last night. WIth the BRPA, I had like half a gallon of trub, with the SRIPA it was literally well over a gallon of sh*t I could not use. A secondary issue here is I ended up with far less than 5 gallons of final beer. I need a better strainer, I'm afraid...anyway...

WIth all that junk, I threw is some preboiled and cooled water, stirred it up good, let it sit for 20 minutes then poured about the first half gallon off in each case. I could in no way determine a difference in layers other than a more liquidy layer then the mess on the bottom. This sat for a while then I decanted part of the top into 2 smaller jars. This morning the 4 jars (2 from each beer) look ok, but I don't know if that's even yeast in there!

 

[Larso]

Hi Natewv, I'm new to this but I've found that unless you dilute the trub/yeast with enough water you won't get proper separation like in the images. It needs to be fluid enough for the heavy crap to fall out fairly quickly

L

 

[natewv]

Well I threw a good gallon almost in there.

 

[Larso]

It's also a very subtle difference between thelayers. I had to look very close to see it

 

[bmock79]

I'm through the first 40 pages and I havent found the answer to my question. I have two jars of washed yeast (1056). I am looking to make a starter to pitch in to an IPA. I usually use mr. malty calc for my starter size. How do I know what size of a starter to make?

Sorry for the dumb question. It may have been asked before but I never read a clear answer.

Cheers..

 

[Brulosopher]

I'm through the first 40 pages and I havent found the answer to my question. I have two jars of washed yeast (1056). I am looking to make a starter to pitch in to an IPA. I usually use mr. malty calc for my starter size. How do I know what size of a starter to make?

Sorry for the dumb question. It may have been asked before but I never read a clear answer.

Cheers..

Great question! Answer anyone?

 

[mistercameron]

I'm through the first 40 pages and I havent found the answer to my question. I have two jars of washed yeast (1056). I am looking to make a starter to pitch in to an IPA. I usually use mr. malty calc for my starter size. How do I know what size of a starter to make?

Sorry for the dumb question. It may have been asked before but I never read a clear answer.

Cheers..

Doesn't Mr Malty tell you how big your starter should be? I believe it works under the assumption that the yeast will grow to max density for the given volume. You just have to make it ahead of time so they're active when you pitch.

 

[ResumeMan]

Pretty sure I remember seeing somewhere in this thread that folks simply treat it as though it was a full Wyeast/WL vial and go from there. Haven't done it myself but I think that I remember reading it in the thread.

 

[Larso]

I usually use mr. malty calc for my starter size. How do I know what size of a starter to make?

Isn't that what the 'Repitching from slurry' option on mr malty is for. I'm just starting to save harvest/freeze yeast but I assumed thats what that option is for.

L

 

[Accidic]

Moreso I believe there is a tab on mr. malty that lets you calc slurry amount based on size and age of the yeast.

If concerned I would make a small starter just to wake and increase cell health but honestly if less than a few weeks since washing I wouldn't think you would have viability problems if you met the slurry requirements it gives you. It's difficult to argue with the consensus to make a starter tho and to be honest I've never had a problem with over-pitching that way. For that matter I don't think I've had issue over-pitching even when I did with dry yeast.

 

[Aschecte]

I'm through the first 40 pages and I havent found the answer to my question. I have two jars of washed yeast (1056). I am looking to make a starter to pitch in to an IPA. I usually use mr. malty calc for my starter size. How do I know what size of a starter to make?

Sorry for the dumb question. It may have been asked before but I never read a clear answer.

Cheers..

Well im not 100% sure but I believe you set the tab at repitch from slurry than adjust the slider bar between thick and thin slurry based on the thickness of yeast you have collected. Maybe someone with more experience with this method could back this up ( or not ).

Sent from my iPhone using HB Talk

 

[mistercameron]

On a related note, can we decant some of the liquid and re-use the white labs vials? Seems like a better way to save space in the fridge. So far SWMBO hasn't complained, but fridge space is limited and mason jars take up quite a bit of room.

 

[badhabit]

On a related note, can we decant some of the liquid and re-use the white labs vials? Seems like a better way to save space in the fridge. So far SWMBO hasn't complained, but fridge space is limited and mason jars take up quite a bit of room.

After asking some questions here a short time ago I started doing just what you proposed. It works fine and a week ago I used two WLP tubes without a starter after a month in the fridge. (OOPS, forgot to save a cup of the cake so had to go to the harvested yeast without any advanced notice) Had active fermentation within six hours. The only real question is how much of the tube saved yeast to use. I decant and reduce harvested yeast for about ten days before I put it in the tube for the final. After about a month the yeast in the tube settles to about 60% of the tube. What is there appears to be clean pure thick yeast but....who knows. I more or less calculated that two to three full tubes of yeast should be the correct pitching rate after using a starter and about a month after harvest. For sure my method is not pure science, at most it is best guess calculation. Next I am going to wait six manths and build a starter and use two more harvested tubes and see what happens. I will report back results.

 

[bmock79]

Isn't that what the 'Repitching from slurry' option on mr malty is for. I'm just starting to save harvest/freeze yeast but I assumed thats what that option is for.

L

so if i go in mr malty and click on repitch from slurry and it says i need 214 ml of yeast i would make a starter of roughly a cup or roughly a half pint?

 

[cravej]

so if i go in mr malty and click on repitch from slurry and it says i need 214 ml of yeast i would make a starter of roughly a cup or roughly a half pint?

Not exactly. Pitching from the slurry instead of making a starter, because the slurry already has lots of yeast cells, but you need a full cup of yeast slurry in order to skip making a starter.

 

[Kealia]

On a related note, can we decant some of the liquid and re-use the white labs vials? Seems like a better way to save space in the fridge. So far SWMBO hasn't complained, but fridge space is limited and mason jars take up quite a bit of room.

Yes. I started doing this about a year ago to save space, too. I brewed a batch about a month ago that was from year-old yeast so I opted to use two vials in a 1L starter and had no issues at all. From my notes, that batch hit the exact same apparent attenuation that the original batch did.

 

[badhabit]

Yes. I started doing this about a year ago to save space, too. I brewed a batch about a month ago that was from year-old yeast so I opted to use two vials in a 1L starter and had no issues at all. From my notes, that batch hit the exact same apparent attenuation that the original batch did.

Your info on this topic helped me get started using the WLP tubes...thanks for that!!! Do you decant until you get the tube completely full of yeast? As I noted in my last post I have been decanting the washed yeast for about 10 days to two weeks but still now end up with a tube that is only 60% or so yeast. Again thanks for your help it is much appreciated.

 

[Kealia]

I'm glad that I've been able to help. I decant as much liquid as I can and end up with anywhere between 60% - 80% of the vial full (eyeballing).

 

[ResumeMan]

So to be sure I'm clear on the process you're describing, you wash the yeast into pint jars, let it settle, then decant and pour the bottom layer into the WL vials? Assuming that's it it sounds like a good space-saver, though it's one more transfer for something to possibly go wrong.

 

[Kealia]

Yes, I wash and then let it settle in the mason jars for a week or so in the fridge so it's nice and clear (and that's when I get back around to moving it...), then I move to the vials.

Yes, its another transfer so there are additional risks but proper sanitization and a little luck (with a pour for the homies) goes a long way

 

[jonmohno]

If i were to do this racking a beer then making another the next day doing a small 2 gal batch. Would i just scoop a half small jar of the used yeast adding sanitized water to fill it up the rest of the way, let it sit on the counter overnight then when i brew just pour off the water and pitch. Or do i have to stick it in the fridge over night?
Also im dryhopping in a hop sack with this beer,since this would be washing would it be ok to pitch for the next batch. I would like to reuse this liquid yeast a few more times. Also is distilled water ok or do i need to boil spring or filtered water?

 

[ACESFULL]

Ok so I have 2 beers fermenting ATM and I am going to attempt to "wash/reuse" my yeast. Now went ahead with the mason jars and boiled for at least 20 min removed the jars added lids etc. Now that they have cooled for a little while I noticed I have some sediment at the bottom of the jars. Should I be worried about this or would the long boil kill anything that may be at the bottom? This water was drawn straight out of the tap.

 

[Aschecte]

If i were to do this racking a beer then making another the next day doing a small 2 gal batch. Would i just scoop a half small jar of the used yeast adding sanitized water to fill it up the rest of the way, let it sit on the counter overnight then when i brew just pour off the water and pitch. Or do i have to stick it in the fridge over night?
Also im dryhopping in a hop sack with this beer,since this would be washing would it be ok to pitch for the next batch. I would like to reuse this liquid yeast a few more times. Also is distilled water ok or do i need to boil spring or filtered water?

Do not use distilled or RO water as the osmotic pressure in RO water will cause the yeast cell wall to rupture. I believe the general consensus will be to just use boiled and cooled tap water.

Sent from my iPhone using HB Talk

 

[Accidic]

Ok so I have 2 beers fermenting ATM and I am going to attempt to "wash/reuse" my yeast. Now went ahead with the mason jars and boiled for at least 20 min removed the jars added lids etc. Now that they have cooled for a little while I noticed I have some sediment at the bottom of the jars. Should I be worried about this or would the long boil kill anything that may be at the bottom? This water was drawn straight out of the tap.

I've seen sediment in very large cylindrical containers after a boil that turned out to just be calcium deposits. I might be a little concerned given the small size depending on volume. If it is just your water you could reproduce it with another small boil in another jar. Plus you'd get a little more water to use while washing.

That said, I've used bottled water in a pinch and had zero issues with it. As mentioned above don't use bottled or distilled but plain filtered or UV treated is fine. The way many are processed the oxygen content is minimal anyway and frankly anyone washing from carboys is adding far more oxygen no matter how they do it anyway and you see no outcry that it's not possible with carboyed yeast cakes...

 

[BullGator]

Ok, there are many pages and I read over half but have not seen anybody with a similar question. So I brewed an IPA dry-hopped with about 2.5 oz of hop pellets. I believe I followed the procedure exactly and I think I screwed it up big time. I poured the cooled boiled water in the glass carboy (of course after I siphoned my beer off). I let it sit for about 20 to 25 minutes. There were definitely 3 distinct layers in the carboy. So when trying to decant in the carboy, I first had a hard time getting it to decant without mixing because of the weight of the carboy with water. But there was still clear liquid on top. Then because I thought there might be too much of the clear liquid I poured off a little. So I let the larger jar sit for around 20 minutes. I saw what appeared to be cloudy water up top and darker material on the bottom and a thin white line in the middle. I then poured this into 4 smaller jars and put in the fridge.

Here's my problem. The first 2 jars have no cake at the bottom after 2 days and are still just cloudy water/beer. The last 2 jars (that I thought had gotten too much trub in) look like everyone's picture here of the final product. So here are some of my thoughts: 1 - I may need a bigger initial mason jar. 2 - I may have had too much fluid or I need to 'pour off' some more of the clear fluid. 3 - I may need to pour out the entire contents of the carboy into another container to start with because of the mixing. 4 - I think having all the hop pellets in suspension may have 'blurred' the line between the yeast and the trub.

Well, at least I have 2 viable jars (i think). Thoughts?

 

[jonmohno]

Not much responses on this thread,ive never done this yet, but i would say try a starter? Your 2nd pic looked better, but in your 2nd pic this liquid is what you added to the water? Then threw out the bottem trub? It almost looks like you wanted to keep the stuff in the bottem of your 2nd pic.Meaning toss the liquid then splitt the sediment between the jars.
Im unshure which way i want to try this,either scooping up some from the fermenter letting it seperate ,pouring the cloudy water then using that.All in a day or two? Thats where im uncertain. Im kinda confused as hell.

 

[sheeshomatic]

That first picture it looks like you have a good 1/4 inch layer of yeast sitting on top of the trub, but it is somewhat tough to tell.

What you *might* have done wrong was letting the initial wash settle a little too long. When you add your boiled cooled water to the carboy and shake it up, you want to wait long enough for the trub to settle but NOT the yeast. Your liquid should be cloudy and you noted that it was clear. You want to be decanting that cloudy liquid into your jars/gallon jug for the second wash.

 

[Accidic]

Here's my problem. The first 2 jars have no cake at the bottom after 2 days and are still just cloudy water/beer. The last 2 jars (that I thought had gotten too much trub in) look like everyone's picture here of the final product. So here are some of my thoughts: 1 - I may need a bigger initial mason jar. 2 - I may have had too much fluid or I need to 'pour off' some more of the clear fluid. 3 - I may need to pour out the entire contents of the carboy into another container to start with because of the mixing. 4 - I think having all the hop pellets in suspension may have 'blurred' the line between the yeast and the trub.

Well, at least I have 2 viable jars (i think). Thoughts?

I double wash to avoid the trub almost completely but I get less yeast as a result. In all likelihood the reason you're cloudy is yeast suspension in my experience and fwiw those yeast are the best yeast to work with as they seem to be much healthier. If it takes more than 4 days for the water to become clear I won't bother with a starter out to 2wks so long as I have enough slurry regardless of OG of the target. My first try ended up a lot like yours tho. I migrated to a large pickle jar for the first and a decent size for the second and usually put in cup jars to make three slurry easy to measure. I can't imagine your hops are staying suspended with no activity more than 24hrs tho.

 

[BullGator]

ok, well I got to page 63 of this post and realized my problem. My yeast was WLP007 which White Labs says is "highly flocculent". So I think my yeast settled out much faster than the 20 to 25 min I waited. Also I guess I was supposed to wash from the primary (which for some reason I didn't catch even after reading over 60 pages of this thread). I surmise that I compounded this problem by washing from secondary using a highly flocculent yeast. Double Whammy!

Well, I have another IPA in primary now where I used WLP005 so I will have another chance (although different strain).

My only question now is I wonder if the 2 jars I did get are worth anything? They appear to be ok but I am not sure how much trub I got in there.

 

[gingerdawg]

ok, well I got to page 63 of this post and realized my problem. My yeast was WLP007 which White Labs says is "highly flocculent". So I think my yeast settled out much faster than the 20 to 25 min I waited. Also I guess I was supposed to wash from the primary (which for some reason I didn't catch even after reading over 60 pages of this thread). I surmise that I compounded this problem by washing from secondary using a highly flocculent yeast. Double Whammy!

Well, I have another IPA in primary now where I used WLP005 so I will have another chance (although different strain).

My only question now is I wonder if the 2 jars I did get are worth anything? They appear to be ok but I am not sure how much trub I got in there.

You'll have yeast. It just may take a couple more step-ups with the starter.