Yeast Washing Illustrated

[commonlaw]

Not that I've done it yet, but I think you can go straight to a regular size starter from 1 jar (esp. if you use a stir plate). I wish I had used smaller jars--no point in taking up so much room in my fridge. Of course, I'm already wanting to move on to slanting yeast.

 

[DanPoch]

So I tried this for the first time last week, and ... holy crap it was easy. So easy. Unbelievably easy. If you're reading this thread and haven't tried yeast washing yet because it looks difficult and complicated ... just do it.

+1 Yeast are pretty tough guys. As long as you handle with care (read use santaized equipment and clean water) they're good to go.

But my question is: since these jars are pretty small, is the yeast in one of them enough for a regular-sized starter? Or should I combine the yeast into 2 jars? I'm honestly not interested in having to start with a smaller starter, then step it up (at least for a normal OG beer), since, well, that's more work than I wanna do. If that's the case, I'd rather just combine them.

I've always used just one in a starter and haven't had any problems with getting enough. As far as I know combining won't hurt you, but it will decrease the number of brews you get from each harvest.

Edit: BTW mine typically sit for 1-3 months before I use them.

 

[craven_morhead]

Have you had any trouble bringing them back from 3+ months from harvesting? I've had a couple that have been slow to take off, though it could be from lack of aeration, etc.

 

[ChillyP]

I've brought yeast (WLP001) back to life after a year of storage in a fridge. It looked down and out with a little brownish (I know not ideal, but I wanted to try it anyways). I made a starter out of it and let it run for 72hrs on the stir plate. After I let it run for 72hrs I took it off the stir plate and let it sit at room temperature for about an hour to kind of settle out. I then poured the liquid off into another starter not to disturb what had settled out. I let the second starter go for 72hrs and it was a nice creamy white I'm use to seeing. I made an excellent Pale Ale with it, without any problems.

 

[craven_morhead]

How large were those starters, 2L?

 

[ChillyP]

I don't have my notes in front of me, but I think the first starter was 500-750ml range. I used a pipet to collected a little sample of the yeast out of my storage jar. The first starter was maybe in a range of 1.020-1.030ish OG. I then stepped up the second time 1500ml or slightly bigger.

 

[craven_morhead]

Were you doing it in a 2000ml beaker? Something else? Any airlock or porous stopper?

 

[ezerhoden]

I washed my first yeast today. I collected a few jars but one jar is not filled completely. Is this a concern? I can't see any reason but in all of the pictures I have noticed in this post are of full jars, and the instructions say to fill completely.

I love looking in my fridge and seeing all that yeast I don't have to buy!

Thanks OP.

 

[user 40839]

Question about yeast generations - which may have already been answered, but Ireland were completely robbed by France today in World Cup Qualifying, I'm horribly pissed off, and used several brews to numb the pain - so I'm too tired and incoherent to go through 55 pages!

Let's say I roll with a store bought yeast, and brew with it. This would be the first generation, right?

Following the (outstanding) methods in the tutorial, I end up with four mason jars of yeasties lurking in my fridge. Each of these jars would be second generation?

And the resulting yeast cakes of these guys (each harvested as outlined) would be generation three?

So based on that, simple math would be 1x4x4x4x4 = 256 batches by the time you're done with the fifth generation? Good God, how many batches have folks gone through who claim to be on the tenth safely?!

 

[DanPoch]

You've got the math and the generation numbers correct. However not all of use gather 4 jars from each batch

 

[ChillyP]

Were you doing it in a 2000ml beaker? Something else? Any airlock or porous stopper?

I use a 1000ml flask with just tin foil on the top. I then move to a bigger one if I need to.

 

[user 15951]

just boiled 4 quart mason jars and filled a sanitized growler with the overflow. i'll be washing some of Denny's fav 50 tomorrow!

 

[TripleHopped]

Nice thread there Bernie Brewer. I was able to get four 1/2 pint jars of Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Wheat. I could have gotten more, but this way I'll have room for other yeast strains. Everything went so smoothly.

I need to get another refrigerator.

 

[tincob]

I just washed some WLP300 yeast from a Hefeweizen fermentation pale. I just harvested 3 1/2 pint jars worth.

I'm listening to Brew Strong yeast washing webcast http://s125483039.onlinehome.us/archive/bs_yeastwash081009.mp3 while I'm posting this.

They don't really recommend washing hefe yeasts as they go south quickly.

Have others had good results using washed hefe yeasts and how long was your yeast stored prior to being used?

Thanks

_________________________________________________________
Update

I brewed two batches with the three 1/2 pint jars

First jar was used ~2 months later to brew another hefeweizen batch. 1 L starter which roused up well within 24 hours.
No problem with the hefe taste.

Second and third jar was used to make a 2 L starter for a dunkelweizen a week ago (4/2). My reasoning for using both remaining jars was that the yeast viability was probably pretty low at this point. The starter took about 48 hours before I saw a krausen in the starter. I brewed on the third day and pitched after 72 hours.

I also pitched the magnetic stir bar but that's another story.

The yeast took off very quickly and I was getting co2 bubbles the next morning. I haven't tasted the batch yet but the smell is the typical clove and banana hefe yeast odor.

I will wash three jars of yeast from this dunkelweizen batch.

So here's a data point that 4 month is a viable time period for washed WLP300 hefeweizen yeast.

 

[Batinse]

Are there any risks associated with washing yeast from a bad batch? I had a thermometer malfunction and dumped a pale ale on a Wyeast 1968 (Lond ESB) yeast cake at about 85F. The batch is bad, but I had planned to wash the yeast cake for future brews. Is it worth saving or is the yeast compromised?

 

[ChillyP]

I'd save it. The yeast is still viable (IMO) and the flavors in your batch were due to the high. I'd think the yeast is probably stressed out a bit, but it'll relax when it's put back into a dormant state. You could take the extra precaution and get a pipet (turkey baster) and take a really small sample from your storage jar and make starter up. That way you can build the colony up at a controlled temperature. Just my two cents.

 

[fiat84]

I just washed some WLP300 yeast from a Hefeweizen fermentation pale. I just harvested 3 1/2 pint jars worth.

I'm listening to Brew Strong yeast washing webcast http://s125483039.onlinehome.us/archive/bs_yeastwash081009.mp3 while I'm posting this.

They don't really recommend washing hefe yeasts as they go south quickly.

Have others had good results using washed hefe yeasts and how long was your yeast stored prior to being used?

Thanks

Like you am interested in harvesting wheat hefe yeast. After listening to this MP3 around the one hour mark they summarize and the two fella's each use different, almost contradictory processes: one washed yeast for only a one time future use, mixed up all the trub, uses hefe yeast within a week, uses other yeasts within a few weeks, and says $6US is cheap($12CDN for me) for a new liquid yeast pack so why even bother with the minimal cost. He adds it is a "quality" issue as the washed yeast degrades over time. The other guy washed his yeast for multiple uses, only mixes the top of the trub goop, and keeps his washed yeast for a few months in the fridge.

Some other relevant posts in this this thread "...As to how many generations, that is a common topic of discussion. There are those that will only go five generations, there are those that say you can go to ten or more generations, if you are using good sanitation techniques. The biggest thing to remember is, if the you know the yeast well, and know how it should ferment, and if it is still doing that, then it is still good. If you are getting odd flavors, or it is taking forever to kick off, etc, then you have probably had a mutation happen, and you should start with a fresh batch."

I've washed WLP 001 Cali Ale and WLP 023 Burton Ale using the process illustrated. I have noticed a HUGE difference in my starters. The washed yeast starts much faster and has a 2-3 inch kreusen while the staters from White Labs vials barely have a kreusen at all. They both work fine but the washed yeast just seems so much more active and healthy than the vials, even after 4-6 months. White Labs recommends a 1 qt/3oz DME starter for 4-6 hours prior to pitching. I usually let starter sit for 24-36 hours.

Get the yeast into an airtight, sterile environment(the boiled water you added to the trub) they'll last an incredibly long time. Store cold but do not freeze in the refridgerator.

No you cannot take a "vial" of White Labs liquid yeast and split it into multiple vials. There is too small a quantity of cells. Probably well less than 100 billion. Even a single step starter will just get you into pitchable territory. After fermentation a full yeast cake from the bottom of a 5 gallon batch will have yeast cells in the trillions. This can easily be split into multiple mason jars with plenty enough yeast in each jar for a pitch. A fresh yeast cake, once washed, will have nearly 100% viability since the yeast is so fresh.

You can use one of the mason jars of washed yeast directly in a batch without using a starter. Some guys do this every time they use washed yeast and not only the same day it was created. The way I package it (with about 6-7 oz of 80% density slurry) I have 4-6 times the cell count of the original WL Tube which is fine for direct pitch. And considering the fact that the yeast just finished fermenting a batch of beer successfully then how can there be even a miniscule chance that it is not viable? There is no better evidence that it is alive and well. Make sure to pitch it at the same temp as the wort so you don't shock it.

Confirms for me that the experienced users must still be making good quality beer using washed yeast a few times and up to a year old.

 

[ibbones]

Kudos to Bernie. I washed some 001 so I can use it again. I did not have the four smaller jars so I used three quart jars and filled up two from the bucket, let them set and then poured into the last quart jar. I kept the other two just to watch the difference. Looking good so far.

 

[phasedweasel]

How do you cap the jars after boiling? Do you let the whole pot of boiled water and jars come back to room temp, covered, and just work with very clean hands / gloves?

 

[Rick500]

I very carefully use tongs that I've boiled along with the jars, to get lids on the jars while everything's still submerged, then lift them out with tongs and then tighten the lids.

 

[commonlaw]

I very carefully use tongs that I've boiled along with the jars, to get lids on the jars while everything's still submerged, then lift them out with tongs and then tighten the lids.

I don't have so much dexterity with my tongs (need a bigger pot) so I pull out the jar full of water with tongs, then the lid and tightener. The lids and tightener must be made of aluminum or something -- they lose heat very fast. a few seconds in the air after pulling them out with the sanitized tongs and they are basically cool enough to handle with your hands. So I put them on the jar (and then often use a potholder to tighten -- the lids get hot again when in contact with the glass). Seems to work without too much risk of contamination.

 

[kappclark]

I just washed some WLP300 yeast from a Hefeweizen fermentation pale. I just harvested 3 1/2 pint jars worth.

I'm listening to Brew Strong yeast washing webcast http://s125483039.onlinehome.us/archive/bs_yeastwash081009.mp3 while I'm posting this.

They don't really recommend washing hefe yeasts as they go south quickly.

Have others had good results using washed hefe yeasts and how long was your yeast stored prior to being used?

Thanks

Well - I will let you know how mine turns out .. I washed WPL300 abt 1 week ago - good harvest, now at bottom of kegerator.(in a jar, of course!)..did they give a drop dead date for storage time ? I will do a starter, 4 sure, just don't know what I wld substitute if the starter is a dud..will brew this weekend.

 

[tincob]

No they didn't give a drop dead date. I washed mine on 11/22. The hefeweizen was a huge success so I will brew another one in about a month or so after I brew up an IIPA and a Scottish Ale.

I'm in the curious noob stage so I'm trying out all the different styles before settling on a few favorites. However, both my wife and I like hefe's so I will definitely be going back to the well on that one. By the time, I brew my second hefe batch, I'm expecting that the yeast will have been stored for about two months.

I may have to really nurse the yeast from the pint jar to get the proper pitch volume.

I look forward to your weekend brewing results, Bill. Hope it turns out great.

 

[smmcdermott]

I have a question about yeast washing and did not want to search through 57 pages to try and find the answer. Lets say I am using a Nottingham from an Irish Red and then want to pitch that for use with a Nut Brown Ale, how much will this yeast affect the flavor of the Nut Brown Ale?

Thanks!!

 

[tincob]

I have a question about yeast washing and did not want to search through 57 pages to try and find the answer. Lets say I am using a Nottingham from an Irish Red and then want to pitch that for use with a Nut Brown Ale, how much will this yeast affect the flavor of the Nut Brown Ale?

Thanks!!

I'm by no means an expert on this but if you wash the yeast, then the Irish Red should not have any flavor effect on the Nut Brown Ale. Nottingham is supposed to be a very neutral yeast so it should work.

 

[Rick500]

IMO, it's not worth the trouble to wash Nottingham; just get another packet or two.

Less risk of contamination that way, too.

 

[sunblock]

pics are dead now, anyway they can be updated? This looks very informative.

n/m found it in the wiki here :

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Washing_yeast

 

[Picobrew]

What is the proper nomenclature for the generations? Is the smack pack/vial the '1st generation' or is the first harvested yeast the 1st gen?

I just grew a starter with some SmackPack->Harvest->Harvest yeast (2nd gen? 3rd gen?) and it was the healthiest starter I've ever had. Good stuff. I have gotten about 10 batches out of one smack pack of 1007 german ale now. All of them have turned out very nice. Thanks for this post! Another nice addendum would be the brew strong podcast on yeast washing.

I've modified my technique a bit now. I dont throw any water into the carboy, just use the beer thats in there to swirl it up. Then I pour as much of the trub as I can into my half gallon glass milk jar, leave that in the fridge overnight, then decant that and rinse in there (pour in the sterile water, shake like mad), then settle that for 20-30m and decant the free liquid into 3-4 half-pint jars. This has been working great for me. I really like yeast washing, it's fun!

 

[Bernie Brewer]

pics are dead now, anyway they can be updated? This looks very informative.

n/m found it in the wiki here :

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Washing_yeast

Thanks for the heads-up. The pics are back up. I'm using the wiki to host them this time, so they shouldn't disappear again.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

What is the proper nomenclature for the generations? Is the smack pack/vial the '1st generation' or is the first harvested yeast the 1st gen?

I just grew a starter with some SmackPack->Harvest->Harvest yeast (2nd gen? 3rd gen?) and it was the healthiest starter I've ever had. Good stuff. I have gotten about 10 batches out of one smack pack of 1007 german ale now. All of them have turned out very nice. Thanks for this post! Another nice addendum would be the brew strong podcast on yeast washing.

I've modified my technique a bit now. I dont throw any water into the carboy, just use the beer thats in there to swirl it up. Then I pour as much of the trub as I can into my half gallon glass milk jar, leave that in the fridge overnight, then decant that and rinse in there (pour in the sterile water, shake like mad), then settle that for 20-30m and decant the free liquid into 3-4 half-pint jars. This has been working great for me. I really like yeast washing, it's fun!

I could be wrong, but I'd say that the smack-pack is the 1rst gen, and the first batch of washed yeast is the 2nd gen, etc. If anyone knows better, feel free to correct it. Thanks.