yeast starter with Dry Yeast?

[Pdaigle]

I've heard to not do starter with dry yeast but why? Is there any benifit if I do one?

 

[kombat]

You don't do it because the yeast has been packaged with a "turbo charge" to help them get started right away on the main batch of beer. When you make a starter, they blow all those reserves fermenting the starter wort, and are tired when you pitch them into the main batch.

Or something like that. Plus it's cheap, so just pitch multiple packets to get to your required cell count. Just make sure you rehydrate them properly.

 

[jpakstis]

I do it but only because I'm trying to harvest my yeast. But prior to that, I never had any issues with fermentation with any of my pitched dry yeast, either rehydrated or not.

 

[RyanDe680]

Sticky right at the top:

Should I make a starter with dry yeast?

It is generally not recommended to make a starter with dry yeast, for a few reasons. The yeast comes packaged with a cell count and nutrient reserves sufficient for most 5 gallon batches. The cost of a packet of yeast is generally less than the cost of making a proper starter. To be large enough for optimal cell growth based purely on the number of yeast cells inoculating the starter wort, the starter would need to be roughly 3L on a stir plate and this is impractical for most and would yield far more cells (380+ billion) than you would need for most 5 gallon ales. Making a traditional 1L to 2L starter would not allow for healthy growth of the yeast cells.

 

[Johow]

I did a starter with us-05 and overbuilt it to save for the next batch. I'm on the third generation now and it gets better each time so far. All of these batches done with the starter least have fermented like gang busters as well. I follow Brulosophers method, harvesting clean yeast from the starter before pitching the remainder in a batch of wort.

 

[ExMachina]

Researching dry yeast and came across this thread. This is from the sticky and doesn't compute.

should i make a starter with dry yeast?

It is generally not recommended to make a starter with dry yeast, for a few reasons. The yeast comes packaged with a cell count and nutrient reserves sufficient for most 5 gallon batches. The cost of a packet of yeast is generally less than the cost of making a proper starter. To be large enough for optimal cell growth based purely on the number of yeast cells inoculating the starter wort, the starter would need to be roughly 3l on a stir plate and this is impractical for most and would yield far more cells (380+ billion) than you would need for most 5 gallon ales. Making a traditional 1l to 2l starter would not allow for healthy growth of the yeast cells.

First off, I disagree that a 3L stir plate starter is impractical. If you don't normally make stirplate starters I understand, but if you have a stir plate, a 5L Erlenmeyer is an incredibly versatile piece of equipment!

Second, DME is cheap! I can easily get DME for $3.85 for ~450g. A pack of dry yeast costs $4-5. If I am making 10 gallons of lager and want to pitch 1.5 million cells/ml/degree P, a 4L starter will cost me less than $4 and will net me an estimated 800 billion cells...from one packet of yeast. The alternative approach would be to buy 4 packets of dry yeast. Therefore, making a starter should save me at least $11 per batch (including the small cost of yeast nutrient I add).

I'm making a starter

 

[flars]

You can definitely make a starter with dry yeast. Fermentis does say it must be rehydrated first. Don't use RO or distilled water for the rehydration. Lack of minerals in these two types of water will damage the yeast.

Benefit of doing a starter with your one and only pack of dry yeast is to propagate enough extra yeast cells for your brew.

 

[Yesfan]

You can definitely make a starter with dry yeast. Fermentis does say it must be rehydrated first. Don't use RO or distilled water for the rehydration. Lack of minerals in these two types of water will damage the yeast.

Benefit of doing a starter with your one and only pack of dry yeast is to propagate enough extra yeast cells for your brew.

Not disputing your post, but I figured you would want to use one of those over tap water, especially if you have hard water. I've been using distilled water with great results here lately. I rehydrate, let it sit for 15 min, then stir with a (sanitized) spoon. I let it sit for 5 more minutes, then pitch. The lag time has been cut in half compared to when I was sprinkling the yeast.

What water is recommend if RO and distilled is bad?



On the flip side, I've wondered about making a starter with dry yeast if I was doing a big beer. If I'm only going to save a dollar or less vs pitching an extra pack, then I could see where making a starter wouldn't be worth it, time wise.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, somewhere on hbt is a link to a video taken through a microscope of yeast exposed to distilled water.
It's wicked cool. You can literally see the yeast spew their guts...

Cheers!

 

[Yesfan]

fwiw, somewhere on hbt is a link to a video taken through a microscope of yeast exposed to distilled water.
It's wicked cool. You can literally see the yeast spew their guts...

Cheers!

I found it. Pretty impressive.

I feel like a murderer now..............

 

[bluebarnaclebrewing]

I did a starter with us-05 and overbuilt it to save for the next batch. I'm on the third generation now and it gets better each time so far. All of these batches done with the starter least have fermented like gang busters as well. I follow Brulosophers method, harvesting clean yeast from the starter before pitching the remainder in a batch of wort.

I know this is an old thread but...

What are you using for the initial cell count in your yeast calculator for your method? I've heard 200 billion cells in a pack of dry yeast but what has your experience been?