Yeast Starter for strong beers

[rpetterson]

I've been reading the info on John Palmers website about yeast starters. In it, he says:

".....the composition of the starter wort and the main wort must be very similar if the starter is pitched at or near peak activity. Why? Because the yeast in the starter wort have produced a specific set of enzymes for that wort's sugar profile. If those yeast are then pitched to a different wort, with a different relative percentage of sugars, the yeast will be impaired and the fermentation may be affected. Kind of like trying to change boats in mid-stream. This is especially true for starter worts made from extract that includes refined sugars. Yeast that has been eating sucrose, glucose/dextrose, or fructose will quit making the enzyme that allows it to eat maltose - the main sugar of brewer's wort."

So, I want to make a starter for a trippel that has an OG of 1.095. Do I need to ensure that the starter wort I make has an OG of 1.095?

Secondly, I've been looking at the Mrmalty calc and it says that:

Fermentation type: Ale
OG: 1.095
Vol in gals: 5.5
Production date 01/25/2012
1 Vial to be used
Litres of starter required: 11

If I was to make up the first batch of 3 litres of starter wort with the 1 vial of yeast, let it ferment for 24 hours or so, then add 2nd 3 litres of wort; let it ferment for 24 hours; add the 3rd 3 liters etc and the final 2 litres of wort.

By doing the above I'd get approx the required 355 billion cells.

In order to make up the 11 litres of wort at 1.095, Beer Smith is saying I'd need just under 3kg of malt extract. Thats expensive.

Am I missing something here?


Cheers,


Rob

 

[Nanobru]

composition of sugars, not gravity. The sugars found in wort are various, mostly comprising of maltose, some maltotriose and some others, all depending on the temperature of the mash. It is recommended to have a starter of 1.050.

 

[Jdslep]

I don't know the exact numbers, but a 1L + 1L two-step starter nets more yeast than a one-step 2L starter. Search 'Northern Brewer Pitching Rate' and look at their info for an example.

 

[slarkin712]

Go to yeastcalc.com for help with multi-step starters. I use it all the time.

 

[Revvy]

composition of sugars, not gravity. The sugars found in wort are various, mostly comprising of maltose, some maltotriose and some others, all depending on the temperature of the mash. It is recommended to have a starter of 1.050.

+1....In his usual uber convoluted, amd stress provoking to new brewers, way what he is saying to make your starters out of the same "material" as you want them to ferment.

You need to use some form of malt extract for your starters, because you want to acclimate your yeast to eating the more complex sugars, rather than the simple ones like corn/table sugar. Otherwise they'll go for the simple sugars and not be able to break down the more complex ones in your wort.

I find this is more in a language folks can understand.

Prepare the Starter Wort

First thing's first, we're going to need some wort to use in our starter. By far, the best food for yeast that is going to be consuming wort in the very near future is, you guessed it, wort. I say this because you may, at some point, have the idea that you can just use table sugar for your starter. This is a bad idea because the yeast will become accustomed to consuming the simple sugars in table sugar and when it's time to eat up all those beer sugars (maltose, etc.) they will not take to the idea very well and may drop out of the fermentation before the job is done. Think of this as having to drink a Bud after having a great, homebrewed beer - you wouldn't want that and, in a way, it's the same with the yeast.

The best source of easy-to-prepare wort is dried malt extract (DME.) You will need enough DME to prepare a starter of about 1.040 OG. A higer gravity, regardless of the beer you're going to make, is not better as the higher gravity will stress the yeast more than is needed for simple propagation and will leave your yeast in bad condition for the fermentation itself. To achieve the proper gravity, you will need about 6oz (by weight) of DME for every 2 quarts of water1. That equates to roughly 3oz. of DME for every 1000ml of starter water you use.

 

[rpetterson]

Thanks for the info guys. I found yeastcalc.com this really useful as well as the notes that go with it.

 

[BOBTHEukBREWER]

Clearly my beers cannot ferment, as I hydrate my safale 04 yeast for 20 minutes, then add 1 teaspoon of brewing sugar, stirring and aerating. after 1 or 2 hours I have a 4 inch rocky head on the starter, which I pitch into a 3.8 % ABV (when finished) bitter. The volcanic activity the next morning is clearly a mirage. After 5 to 6 days I bottle with a little brewing sugar to prime, and drink 3 weeks later. Maybe I dream of opening them and enjoying them.

 

[Revvy]

Clearly my beers cannot ferment, as I hydrate my safale 04 yeast for 20 minutes, then add 1 teaspoon of brewing sugar, stirring and aerating. after 1 or 2 hours I have a 4 inch rocky head on the starter, which I pitch into a 3.8 % ABV (when finished) bitter. The volcanic activity the next morning is clearly a mirage. After 5 to 6 days I bottle with a little brewing sugar to prime, and drink 3 weeks later. Maybe I dream of opening them and enjoying them.

Or maybe you would realize that a) there's no reason to make a starter for dry yeast, and b) if you did do a proper starter for liquid yeast with the correct form of sugar (Maltose) you'll have BETTER beer....And c) The most important one, you're probably not MAKING a starter so much as proofing the dry yeast anyway, just like bakers do. It's probably not replicating cells, just waking up from dormancy and eating the surrounding sugars.

I mean people have sex with strange women without condoms all the time, and don't get STDs, doesn't mean it's the smart thing to do, nor will it mean that it won't come back to haunt them some day.

Just because you do something, that the experts say isn't the best way, and have what you deem "satisfactory" results, doesn't mean you're doing it right, or better.

You're pissed off because a couple experts, John Palmer, and I believe Jamil is the author who I quoted, are saying you're doing it wrong? I'd go with JP and Jamil over you on this one.

*shrug*

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Clearly my beers cannot ferment, as I hydrate my safale 04 yeast for 20 minutes, then add 1 teaspoon of brewing sugar, stirring and aerating. after 1 or 2 hours I have a 4 inch rocky head on the starter, which I pitch into a 3.8 % ABV (when finished) bitter. The volcanic activity the next morning is clearly a mirage. After 5 to 6 days I bottle with a little brewing sugar to prime, and drink 3 weeks later. Maybe I dream of opening them and enjoying them.

huh?

 

[ajf]

I think the problem with Revvy and NordeastBrewer is that they don't have a sense of humour. They may have a sense of humor, but it's missing something.

-a.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

I think the problem with Revvy and NordeastBrewer is that they don't have a sense of humour. They may have a sense of humor, but it's missing something.

-a.

must be something like that. d@mn those two anyway, living such humorless lives.

 

[AAIndigo]

So now i'm confused???? Is it safe to have sex without condoms :}

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

So now i'm confused???? Is it safe to have sex without condoms :}

i sure a f*$& hope so!

 

[BOBTHEukBREWER]

Yes - they missed the irony in my post - and they think that yeast can eat sugar without cell division....

 

[william_shakes_beer]

Clearly my beers cannot ferment, as I hydrate my safale 04 yeast for 20 minutes, then add 1 teaspoon of brewing sugar, stirring and aerating. after 1 or 2 hours I have a 4 inch rocky head on the starter, which I pitch into a 3.8 % ABV (when finished) bitter. The volcanic activity the next morning is clearly a mirage. After 5 to 6 days I bottle with a little brewing sugar to prime, and drink 3 weeks later. Maybe I dream of opening them and enjoying them.

I do the same thing when I proof yeast to make bread. But I still do DME starters for beer. That's just the way I roll. For bread I just need the yeast to produce c02 to make it rise. My expectations for beer yeast are a bit higher.

 

[Brew-ta-sauraus]

Thanks for the info guys. I found yeastcalc.com this really useful as well as the notes that go with it.

I went to Yeast calc as well great website thatnks for the info.