Yeast: s-33 and t-58 - what shall I do with them?

[MikeFallopian]

I have some s-33 and t-58 knocking around the fridge, and, given there's a lot of debate over their origins as well as some unclarity as to how they perform, I was wondering if I could have some thoughts on what they would be best used for.

I would quite like to make a weissbier for the summer - would t-58 be any good for that, or is it more suited to a Belgian wit?

What can s-33 be used for? I'm assuming from what I've read that it's not really suited to Belgian styles at all!

Thanks!

 

[Toga]

s-33's origins are the Edme strain. It however does display some Belgian characteristics and is very nice in a nice wit. This yeast is a beast and loves wheat. The most violent fermentations I have experienced to date is with this yeast. I use it in my take on a wit which is not very wit at all. Have also used in a IPA, pale ale, stout, and brown. Ferment it cold if you do not want banana esters. I currently have a batch fermenting at 57 degrees with it.

Below is the Fermentis Description.


A very popular general purpose yeast displaying both very robust conservation properties and consistent performance. This yeast produces superb flavour profiles and is used for the production of a varied range of top fermented special beers (Belgian type wheat beers Trappist etc.). Also recommended for bottle-conditioning of beers. Excellent performance in beers with alcohol contents of up to 7.5% but can ferment up to 11.5%

 

[Kaz]

There are descriptions here...http://www.fermentis.com/FO/60-Beer/60-11_product_rangeHB.asp

They're both alcohol tolerant Belgian/belgian like yeasts, I would say neither is really suited to a Weissbier. Of the two, I would probably take the S-33 for a Weiss if I had to, the T-58 is pretty estery and, as it states, can be quite peppery. I would try S-33 in a Belgian Wit and use the T-58 for a Belgian Ale. But, hey, this is homebrewing, use them however you want and come up with something new. Just FYI...at the bottom of that page, WB-06 is the weizen yeast.

 

[BPhad]

I brewed a Partial Mash version of a Blue Moon Clone with T-58 and my family emptied my keg at Easter.
This was a small batch, but you could ramp it up to 5 gallons.
Recipe: Big Fat Wit
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Style: Belgian Specialty Ale
TYPE: Partial Mash
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 4.00 gal
Post Boil Volume: 3.78 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 3.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 2.75 gal
Estimated OG: 1.089 SG
Estimated Color: 7.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 22.9 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 72.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
8.0 oz Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM) Grain 1 7.7 %
8.0 oz Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 2 7.7 %
3 lbs Wheat Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 3 46.2 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz Extra Light Dry Extract (3.0 SRM) Dry Extract 4 38.5 %
1.00 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] - Boil 40.0 min Hop 5 22.9 IBUs
0.90 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 6 -
0.30 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 7 -
1.0 pkg SafBrew Specialty Ale (DCL/Fermentis #T- 58 Yeast


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Full Body
Total Grain Weight: 6 lbs 8.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 1.25 qt of water at 168.2 F 156.0 F 40 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 10 min 168.0 F 10 min

 

[MikeFallopian]

Thanks everyone!

I think I'll use the s-33 to make a Witbier. I'm thinking of using the t-58 to make something along the lines of Delirium Tremens, or Brugse Zot...

On that topic, does anyone know what spices are in Brugse Zot? When I was at the brewery they referred to it as a 'secret blend' of spices, though I can only taste coriander in it.

 

[Ogri]

Just wondering how this turned out for you.

I've got a wit in the fermenter just now, 5 days in from pitching s-33, and keeping it at the top of the temp range for the yeast (75F) to see if I can get some Belgian type ester and phenol compounds to come out.

Toga's right about its tendency for dynamic fermentation. Lag was only a few hours then it took off and had a pretty amazing krauzen for the first couple of days after pitching which then started to subside. 5 days in now and only really a few scattered clumps of bubbles on the surface.

 

[TNGabe]

I've use t-58 several times - it's super cheap and I've been trying to dial in my process and set-up. I'm brewing a few times a week and haven't stepped up to rinsing yeast, yet. I've had a hard time getting better than 80% attenuation in primary with t-58, but it doesn't flocculate very well, and keeps dropping once it's in secondary. I've tried starting mid 60's and ramping up to mid 70's by day 5 and 60 up to 70. Don't have either batch ready to drink yet, but the warmer batch has a more estery aroma for sure.

 

[Toga]

Just wondering how this turned out for you.

I've got a wit in the fermenter just now, 5 days in from pitching s-33, and keeping it at the top of the temp range for the yeast (75F) to see if I can get some Belgian type ester and phenol compounds to come out.

Toga's right about its tendency for dynamic fermentation. Lag was only a few hours then it took off and had a pretty amazing krauzen for the first couple of days after pitching which then started to subside. 5 days in now and only really a few scattered clumps of bubbles on the surface.

On the hotter end of the range for the yeast you end up with a ton of esters . If you ended up any hotter than 75 and you will end up with enough banana esters to flag down all the monkeys at the zoo

 

[pdxal]

I've use t-58 several times - it's super cheap and I've been trying to dial in my process and set-up. I'm brewing a few times a week and haven't stepped up to rinsing yeast, yet. I've had a hard time getting better than 80% attenuation in primary with t-58, but it doesn't flocculate very well, and keeps dropping once it's in secondary. I've tried starting mid 60's and ramping up to mid 70's by day 5 and 60 up to 70. Don't have either batch ready to drink yet, but the warmer batch has a more estery aroma for sure.

In my experience, and everything I've read, T-58 flocculates well and leaves a compacted, solid, yeast cake. S-33 didn't flocculate worth crap for me.
T-58 seems to leave a higher FG, and the S-33 a lower FG.
Cheers.

 

[Haussenbrau]

I use a blend of S-33 and T-58 in my Belgian Strong Ales.

 

[badlee]

I am waiting on some S-33 which I amgoing to use as primary yeast in a 3 way split for Brett secondary beers.

 

[MikeFallopian]

I ended up using the T-58 for a Tripel-inspired Christmas ale, then repitched the slurry for a Belgian dark strong-inspired Christmas ale. Both beers have turned out very nice, and the yeast flocculated well.

I used the S-33 yesterday in a Maris Otter/Northern Brewer SMASH, fermented cool like a Kolsch, which I'm also going to lager for a month. I'll update when the beer is ready...

 

[yeastforbrains]

I recently tried T-58 in a roasty stout, I rehydrated and pitched at 22°C. The thing took off like a rocket, climbed up to 28°C on the fermenter temp strip and produced massive amounts of nail varnish & bubble gum (artificial banana) flavors that did not at all work with my dark, roasty grainbill. So, control your fermentation temp and brew a Belgian pale with your T-58.

 

[bloombrews]

I use a blend of S-33 and T-58 in my Belgian Strong Ales.

I know this is very old, but somewhere I read recently, that the brewery combines both the S33 and the T58 for there Wit beer.
I have been trying to find this article for a while and came across your post.
If your still around on HBT (I am), let me know
thanks

 

[G_robertus]

I know this is very old, but somewhere I read recently, that the brewery combines both the S33 and the T58 for there Wit beer.
I have been trying to find this article for a while and came across your post.
If your still around on HBT (I am), let me know
thanks

https://www.pressreader.com/usa/craft-beer-brewing-magazine/20201201/281792811546370
You mean this by any chance? I found it on a UK board. The recipe is for a tripel though.

@Northern_Brewer might be able to help you since they replied there as well.

 

[mac_1103]

I use T-58 and S-33 for my last tripel. I'm not really crazy about how it turned out. I hit the expected OG and FG, but it somehow tastes a little underattenuated to me. OTOH, everyone else who's tasted it says it's great so what do I know?

 

[GoodTruble]

I find S-33 to be a jack-of-all-trades ale yeast. It's "okay" for several styles but not best at any of them. It's a good "vaguely European pale ale" yeast, and I made a smash maris otter with it (and saaz) that I liked a lot.

 

[shetc]

T-58 makes a great Belgian IPA.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

https://www.pressreader.com/usa/craft-beer-brewing-magazine/20201201/281792811546370
You mean this by any chance? I found it on a UK board. The recipe is for a tripel though.

@Northern_Brewer might be able to help you since they replied there as well.

Well I'm not quite sure what the question is, but you may find this thread more appropriate in relation to de Ranke :

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/choice-for-belgian-ipa-de-ranke-xx-bitter-inspired-beer.666998/
As said above - S-33 seems to be a descendant of the old EDME homebrew yeast, so it's a fairly close cousin of Windsor and should be considered as the Fermentis version of Windsor, it's weird how it was ever considered a Belgian yeast. I've not used it but it should be noted that Windsor drops well, it just doesn't flocculate, so it pours fine as long as you don't disturb it.

In turn T-58 is a somewhat more distant cousin of S-33/Windsor, with the phenolic POF gene cassette to give it that pepperiness. It's quite biotransformative, it turns the grapefruit of Chinook into lime.

 

[bloombrews]

You mean this by any chance? I found it on a UK board. The recipe is for a tripel though.

@Northern_Brewer might be able to help you since they replied there as well.

WOW!! I thought that I would be talking to myself on this 2012 old Thread/Forum.... did not expect so many replys - NICE!
I have every Craft Beer and Brewing Magazine since the first issue, so not sure how I missed this article, but NO, it was not a Belgium Triple. I do love making bottle conditioned Belgian style beers, but now focusing on Lagers (The Belgiums got me to F'd up all the time.....)
@Northern_Brewer , I thought "They" were a homebrew Supplier, here in the USA? Did not know they have posts here on HBT (or is this someone with the "same" name??)

 

[bloombrews]

Well I'm not quite sure what the question is, but you may find this thread more appropriate in relation to de Ranke :

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/choice-for-belgian-ipa-de-ranke-xx-bitter-inspired-beer.666998/
As said above - S-33 seems to be a descendant of the old EDME homebrew yeast, so it's a fairly close cousin of Windsor and should be considered as the Fermentis version of Windsor, it's weird how it was ever considered a Belgian yeast. I've not used it but it should be noted that Windsor drops well, it just doesn't flocculate, so it pours fine as long as you don't disturb it.

In turn T-58 is a somewhat more distant cousin of S-33/Windsor, with the phenolic POF gene cassette to give it that pepperiness. It's quite biotransformative, it turns the grapefruit of Chinook into lime.

THE QUESTION WAS - What beer (commercial or non), is brewed with both combined together, the S-33 along with T-58 ?
I was going to just use them by themselfs, or try to find the Brewery that "loved" the combination of using both together, for there (I think??), Wit beer.
Thanks NB !

 

[Northern_Brewer]

@Northern_Brewer , I thought "They" were a homebrew Supplier, here in the USA? Did not know they have posts here on HBT (or is this someone with the "same" name??)

The clue is in the sidebar (blimey, I hadn't noticed I was over 4k posts now) :

I'm nothing to do with the US corporation, I guess we both named ourselves after the same British hop but I'm also an individual brewer from northern England who has been using the name since I think before the corporation. There's also another individual kicking around some of the UK forums.

THE QUESTION WAS - What beer (commercial or non), is brewed with both combined together, the S-33 along with T-58 ?
I was going to just use them by themselfs, or try to find the Brewery that "loved" the combination of using both together, for there (I think??), Wit beer.

I don't think it's confirmed that de Ranke use S-33 + T-58, I *think* all that's on the record is that they use "Fermentis yeast" and people have tried to extrapolate from there. And to be honest I don't think it's a particularly special combination, it's just what was available to them when Rodenbach stopped supplying yeast to other breweries.

Certainly among smaller UK breweries it's fairly common to use blends of dry yeast - Dark Star is/was a notable example - albeit they tend to use Lallemand as they have a better less bad range of British yeasts.

 

[bloombrews]

The clue is in the sidebar (blimey, I hadn't noticed I was over 4k posts now) :
View attachment 818490

I'm nothing to do with the US corporation, I guess we both named ourselves after the same British hop but I'm also an individual brewer from northern England who has been using the name since I think before the corporation. There's also another individual kicking around some of the UK forums.

I don't think it's confirmed that de Ranke use S-33 + T-58, I *think* all that's on the record is that they use "Fermentis yeast" and people have tried to extrapolate from there. And to be honest I don't think it's a particularly special combination, it's just what was available to them when Rodenbach stopped supplying yeast to other breweries.

Certainly among smaller UK breweries it's fairly common to use blends of dry yeast - Dark Star is/was a notable example - albeit they tend to use Lallemand as they have a better less bad range of British yeasts.

NICE! Reply.
Thanks for sharing Your thoughts, on this. I am never too old to learn, what I want to learn!
Now... If I can find some open Cool-Ships, lined with Slate.... and clone the Recipe, for Tadcaster Porter (Taddy)...... my Life maybe getting close to knowing "It All"! LMAO!

 

[Paulo Jurza]

I have some s-33 and t-58 knocking around the fridge, and, given there's a lot of debate over their origins as well as some unclarity as to how they perform, I was wondering if I could have some thoughts on what they would be best used for.

I would quite like to make a weissbier for the summer - would t-58 be any good for that, or is it more suited to a Belgian wit?

What can s-33 be used for? I'm assuming from what I've read that it's not really suited to Belgian styles at all!

Thanks!

If I started to do a really German Weiss type I´ll stick to the T-58 (it produces very esterified cloves and banana flavours ) - but to more neutral belgian that I will add some coriander seeds, I will use the s-33. And a curiosity - I made a batch at 80 degrees celsius with little amount malt (to 20 liter I used 800gr) to make a 0.5ABV beer - and it worked - S-33 doen´t like long chains of complex sugars, and it didn´t ferment it all. I ended up with a nice bodied and flavoured good neutral 0.5 beer, much much much better than 0.5 Heineken or Bud....

 

[zasada]

I've used T58 few times with Markowski's grisette grain bill & hop schedule (Farmhouse ales) fermented at 20*C and got almost kristalweizen. Lot of bananas, no clove or other spices. Great table beer.

 

[bloombrews]

WOW! This Thread went from December 12, 2012 (post #13), to a very active thread!
I decided to use both the S-33 and the T58 together, as @Northern_Brewer posted in #19. I will not be able to taste the difference between the two, but I have read that these two work great together..... After 187 batches of beer brewed, this will be my first multi-yeast brew. You will never know, unless you try it!
I was convinced, since 1994, that no dry yeast is as good as liquid yeast... But after trying the Saflager 34/70 in several beers and loving it 100%, I am now a true believer in Fermentis dry yeast quality.

 

[shetc]

I am now a true believer in Fermentis dry yeast quality.

Dry yeast has come along way in the last few years.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I was convinced, since 1994, that no dry yeast is as good as liquid yeast... But after trying the Saflager 34/70 in several beers and loving it 100%, I am now a true believer in Fermentis dry yeast quality.

It depends - the drying process stresses the yeast and suppresses flavour production, so it suits yeast that you want to be neutral - like lagers - but is not so good for eg British styles where you want yeast character.

 

[shetc]

It depends - the drying process stresses the yeast and suppresses flavour production, so it suits yeast that you want to be neutral - like lagers - but is not so good for eg British styles where you want yeast character.

I dunno, T-58 puts out a lot of flavor.

 

[mac_1103]

the drying process stresses the yeast and suppresses flavour production

I thought the yeast were intentionally stressed so that they can withstand the drying process better. I also thought that stressing yeast can actually increase ester production (e.g., under-pitching, under-oxygenating, etc).

 

[bloombrews]

It depends - the drying process stresses the yeast and suppresses flavour production, so it suits yeast that you want to be neutral - like lagers - but is not so good for eg British styles where you want yeast character.

I never used any other dry yeast, except the 34/70 lager yeast. I was very happy with the clean, fast, fermentation of the 34/70.
I was going to use, soon, the T58 and S-33 together combined, for an experimental Wheat/Belgium, style ale. T58 is said to (by Fermentis) - "intense fruity and phenolic flavors – especially banana, clove and peppery notes. Suitable for a great variety of wheat-base beers and fruity-spicy oriented styles."
Wondering how this T58 would turn out a Weizenbier, that has lots of bananna and clove?

 

[bloombrews]

I thought the yeast were intentionally stressed so that they can withstand the drying process better. I also thought that stressing yeast can actually increase ester production (e.g., under-pitching, under-oxygenating, etc).

Yes, this is what the "Experts" tell you to do with the Weihenstephan Weizen yeast - under pitch, no oxygen, to stress the Critters out

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Wondering how this T58 would turn out a Weizenbier, that has lots of bananna and clove?

If you're going for something German-style, then Lallemand Munich Classic is a much better option. T-58 has some pepperiness but not so much of the other stuff.