Yeast past sell-by date - duh!

[Sourel]

Realized via a dream during the night that the yeast I pitched 23 hours ago was past its sell by date. Or maybe my brain past its sell-by date since I thought 2009/05 was still a month away. It's looking like there's some activity in there (the lid of the pail has swelled up, the water in the air lock has moved). Should I throw in an extra pack of yeast now to be on the safe side or should I take heart from the encouraging first signs of activity?

Thanks in advance!

 

[suprchunk]

YMMV, but I've used years old yeast. Of course I make a starter so that helps. But it sounds like it has started for you, so I would see what happens.

 

[Sourel]

As you rightly state, I didn't make a starter. I've always worked on the principle that I can make pretty excellent tasting beer without complicating life (all-mash for example, the thought makes me shudder) since I work full time, have 3 kids and am 6 months' pregnant to boot!

I've thought about starting the yeast properly / using liquid yeast before but have been repelled by the thought of that extra work, more things to sterilize = more possibility of disaster. How much difference taste-wise does it actually make? Enough to justify the extra shenanigans?

 

[TUCK]

I am sure it is fine. Let it roll. If it has started fermenting already then I really think it is good to go. Dont think any other bacteria could build that type of pressure with in that time period.


IF you have a starter then you have a better fermentation in the sense it starts quicker and finishes quicker......either way I always leave min in for 2-4 weeks any way so my little yeassties clean up after themselves.

 

[suprchunk]

As you rightly state, I didn't make a starter. I've always worked on the principle that I can make pretty excellent tasting beer without complicating life (all-mash for example, the thought makes me shudder) since I work full time, have 3 kids and am 6 months' pregnant to boot!

I've thought about starting the yeast properly / using liquid yeast before but have been repelled by the thought of that extra work, more things to sterilize = more possibility of disaster. How much difference taste-wise does it actually make? Enough to justify the extra shenanigans?

If you don't feel that is justified, and make beer that you enjoy, without the all the extra shenanigans (totally appropriate word at times I would say) then don't do it. I have made many beers without starters, many extract beers, and sometimes didn't sterilize as well as I should have. Those beers turned out great. There are also times when I felt I did everything by the book and to the 't' and have had something go wrong.

It's all about what you want, and how you want to get there. I was not attempting to say you did something wrong. On the contrary, it sounds like your beer has started fermenting. I was trying to put you at ease and to relax a bit, and let the yeast do their job.

And I'm sure that beer will be well worth the effort and time you put into it.

 

[Sourel]

thanks for the encouragement suprchunk! It's true I feel like I've pretty much found the level of involvement that's right for me, though I guess I am starting to think about the yeast thing...

Tuck, I'm curious about this idea of leaving the yeast in for 2-4 weeks. I'm still in the beginner's mindset of 8-14 days of fermentation before it all goes horribly wrong. Am I missing something?

 

[bamadoh]

Sourel, I have left beers on the yeast in a primary for 2 months with no ill effects. As long as the yeast was in good condition to begin with and your sanitation was good you should be fine. In fact with most beers the longer they sit on a large yeast cake the better they clear up and taste. The yeast tend to clean up after themselves and eat anything that may cause off flavors.

 

[Revvy]

Bobby M recently did a test on year old stored yeast here; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/testing-limits-yeast-viability-126707/

And my LHBS cells outdated tubes and packs of yeast dirt cheap 2-3 dollars each and I usually grab a couple tubes of belgian or other interesting yeast when I am there and shove it in my fridge. and I have never had a problem with one of those tubes.

I usually make a starter but I once pitched a year old tube of Belgian High Gravity yeast directly into a 2.5 gallon batch of a Belgian Dark Strong, and after about 4 days it took off beautifully.

Same with jarred yeast.

With any stored, old yeast you just need first to apply the "sniff test" if it smell bad, especially if it smells like week old gorilla poop in a diaper left on the side of the road in the heat of summer.

Then make a starter, and if it takes off you are fine. The purpose of a starter is to reproduce any viable cells in a batch of yeast....that;s how we can grow a starter form the dregs in a bottle of beer incrementally...and that beer may be months old.

Even if you have a few still living cells, you can grow them....That's how we can harvest a huge starter (incrementally) from the dregs in a bottle of some commercial beers. You take those few living cells and grow them into more.

If yeast can be grown from a tiny amount that has been encased in amber for 45 million years, 45 million year old yeast ferments amber ale we really don't need to sweat too much about yeast viability....

we just need to think in terms of making starters. Viability isn't really an issue if you are reproducing a lot of healthy cells. Which is what you are doing when you make a starter.....
Really even with "old yeast" if there is a few cells, they will reproduce.

 

[Revvy]

Tuck, I'm curious about this idea of leaving the yeast in for 2-4 weeks. I'm still in the beginner's mindset of 8-14 days of fermentation before it all goes horribly wrong. Am I missing something?

This has been discussed ad nauseum, there are literally thousands of threads covering this. It's now been covered on just about every podcast (Palmer even said it recently on a basic brewing radio) and even BYO magazine.

We've been at the forefront of this for years.

Read this, and try it for yourself.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/super-newbie-question-167065/#post1931475

All I can say is that I leave all my beer 1 month minimum and I medal in BJCP contests, so the judges ain't finding any issues with too long yeast contact.