Yeast immobilization: magic beans of fermentation

[MachineShopBrewing]

I read through the whole thread and maybe I missed it. How did you maintain sanitation while making the beads? And you mentioned cleaning it with an acid wash via a concentrated star san solution. What was your process for this?

 

[MalFet]

I read through the whole thread and maybe I missed it. How did you maintain sanitation while making the beads? And you mentioned cleaning it with an acid wash via a concentrated star san solution. What was your process for this?

I just used sanitary utensils and vessels throughout the process. Nothing fancy.

As far as acid washing goes, there are threads that go into plenty of detail, but I just mixed up some starsan and soaked the beads for 15 minutes. I didn't write down the concentration I used, but I calculated it from a standard acid washing protocol.

 

[two_one_seven]

What about pumping the wort through the beads? Something akin to recirculating while mashing or kind of like a aquarium filter. Not sure about what to hold the beads in. PVC pipe comes to mind but I know that isn't food safe. Hmmmm. Very interesting thread MalFet.

 

[thatjonguy]

Doesn't BrewersHardware sell triclamp spool pieces?

A section of that with some triclamp screen gaskets would work with two hose barbs of you choice.

 

[Norselord]

My graduate degree was going to be about continuous flow fermentation using this technique in a packed column.

Check out this book to find out the engineering way of approaching the problem:
http://www.gobookee.com/shuler-kargi-bioprocess-engineering/

 

[Norselord]

The crazy shapes sound fun, but to be honest I don't think it's a practical road to go down. Anything other than a sphere will require a significantly more complicated production process. Any diameter of "snake" will be significantly harder to produce than beads of the same diameter, and the beads will have a better overall surface area for the given volume.

In general, I think you want the beads to be as small as is practical. Mine are quite small, maybe a quarter the total volume of a green pea each. If I were to find myself restricted by this size, I would probably just make more of them rather than figure out how to make them smaller.

A) this thread is awesome -- only on page 9 and already have so much i want to comment on, but:

B) the reason for spheres is also that they are a good shape for packing efficiently. One consideration might be to have an enclosed system with a small packed column of immobilized yeasties and a recirc pump. Since a fine mesh will hold the calcium alginate beads in place, the fluid can pass through the packed bed column.

Another thought -- if your beads are small enough you can fit a few thousand inside of silicone tubing, then continuously cycle your wort through that.

 

[MalFet]

A) this thread is awesome -- only on page 9 and already have so much i want to comment on, but:

B) the reason for spheres is also that they are a good shape for packing efficiently. One consideration might be to have an enclosed system with a small packed column of immobilized yeasties and a recirc pump. Since a fine mesh will hold the calcium alginate beads in place, the fluid can pass through the packed bed column.

Another thought -- if your beads are small enough you can fit a few thousand inside of silicone tubing, then continuously cycle your wort through that.

Awesome. Keep the comments coming! I'm mostly just flying by the seat of my pants here, so I'm always interested in those with actual experience.

Personally, if it works, I like the idea of reusable tube runs/canisters of yeast. It sounds tremendously convenient.

 

[bobmcstuff]

Best thread I've read in a while! MalFet, I doff my cap.

The Marston's fastcask EPA is actually pretty good - it tastes decent, and being able to tap it as soon as it was in position is pretty useful (I worked in a pub for a while). This is easier than what you normally have to do with cask ales, which is leave it to settle for 24 hours before tapping. Although it's only a problem if you're disorganised, since most pub cellars are st up to allow you to have a few of kegs settling while serving from others. Might help places with small cellars to serve cask ales, which is always good.

They just need to start making more types of beer that way!

 

[Norselord]

Consider the attached diagram

1) Fermenter with two hose barb attachment and airlock
2) peristaltic pump sized to provide calculated flow and pressure to 3-5
3) column with alpha amylase beads
4) column with beta galactosidase
5) column with yeast beads

-- column dimensions based on contact time, reaction rate, ability of beads to withstand flow stresses

Optional inline columns: filtering, nutrient, dry hop column, or maybe even a UV disinfection column.

Thought experiment -- if a combination of flow and column dimensions allow for a single pass, is it possible to produce a continuous flow of beer at the end of the process. This may require maintaining a volume in the 1st tank between a certain minimum/maximum level through periodic additions of fresh wort. Potential advantages to continuously brewed beer are the reduction or process down-time and cost of sanitation, a consistency of beer over a long period of time...

Just spit balling here...

 

[edds5p0]

Consider the attached diagram

1) Fermenter with two hose barb attachment and airlock
2) peristaltic pump sized to provide calculated flow and pressure to 3-5
3) column with alpha amylase beads
4) column with beta galactosidase
5) column with yeast beads

-- column dimensions based on contact time, reaction rate, ability of beads to withstand flow stresses

Optional inline columns: filtering, nutrient, dry hop column, or maybe even a UV disinfection column.

Thought experiment -- if a combination of flow and column dimensions allow for a single pass, is it possible to produce a continuous flow of beer at the end of the process. This may require maintaining a volume in the 1st tank between a certain minimum/maximum level through periodic additions of fresh wort. Potential advantages to continuously brewed beer are the reduction or process down-time and cost of sanitation, a consistency of beer over a long period of time...

Just spit balling here...

I like where you're going with this, but I do wonder, where is the new starch being introduced? You've eliminated the need to mash with the columns, but you still need an efficient way to get starch out of the malt.

 

[passedpawn]

Consider the attached diagram

1) Fermenter with two hose barb attachment and airlock
2) peristaltic pump sized to provide calculated flow and pressure to 3-5
3) column with alpha amylase beads
4) column with beta galactosidase
5) column with yeast beads

-- column dimensions based on contact time, reaction rate, ability of beads to withstand flow stresses

Optional inline columns: filtering, nutrient, dry hop column, or maybe even a UV disinfection column.

Thought experiment -- if a combination of flow and column dimensions allow for a single pass, is it possible to produce a continuous flow of beer at the end of the process. This may require maintaining a volume in the 1st tank between a certain minimum/maximum level through periodic additions of fresh wort. Potential advantages to continuously brewed beer are the reduction or process down-time and cost of sanitation, a consistency of beer over a long period of time...

Just spit balling here...

I wonder what problems will occur with all of the CO2 evolving. Still, I love the idea you propose. It gets my gears spinning.

 

[BBL_Brewer]

I wonder what problems will occur with all of the CO2 evolving. Still, I love the idea you propose. It gets my gears spinning.

You should be able to regulate pressure with a spunding valve. Not sure about pockets of CO2 collecting though. If the CO2 doesn't escape efficiently, there could be some foaming issues and inconsistent contact times depending on flow rate.

 

[pickles]

I like where you're going with this, but I do wonder, where is the new starch being introduced? You've eliminated the need to mash with the columns, but you still need an efficient way to get starch out of the malt.

I appears he's adding wort to the system. I'm not sure where you getting the circumventing of mashing?

 

[edds5p0]

I appears he's adding wort to the system. I'm not sure where you getting the circumventing of mashing?

Since amylases catalyze the hydrolysis of starches, I am assuming that is what the amylase columns are intended for.

 

[Norselord]

Since amylases catalyze the hydrolysis of starches, I am assuming that is what the amylase columns are intended for.

The enzymes are for improving yield and reducing fermentation time...this is mostly based on industrial ethanol production. The columns are merely intended to show the possibilty of stages. They do not need to be packed...they could represent different temperature profiles, or ph profiles.

The initial tank would require charging with wort...not taking mahing out of the equation.

 

[Norselord]

Also each column could represent a different strain of yeast, cooling coils could be used to optimize solution temp to ideal yeast activity range...possibilties abound.

One of the main benefits to immobilization is the improvement of the robustness of the entrapped biology. The survivability of the immobilized yeasts at higher alcohol concentrations may be possible.

 

[Norselord]

I wonder what problems will occur with all of the CO2 evolving. Still, I love the idea you propose. It gets my gears spinning.

Stages for co2 release or adsorption can be included.

Personally i like the potential modularity of the process!

 

[Norselord]

Quick! Someone patent the inline dry-hop column...don't think that process patent has been claimed!

 

[thatjonguy]

What about using nitrogen to push the beer around? Assuming you don't want to force carb at the same time.

 

[Norselord]

What about using nitrogen to push the beer around? Assuming you don't want to force carb at the same time.

Forcecarbing by definition means carbon dioxide, which forms carboxyllic acid, at STP N2 shouldn't affect the process. Question is: how much gas, at what cost, and at whatntemp?

 

[thatjonguy]

Forcecarbing by definition means carbon dioxide, which forms carboxyllic acid, at STP N2 shouldn't affect the process. Question is: how much gas, at what cost, and at whatntemp?

I should have worded that better. If one were to use CO2 to push it around wouldn't there be a risk of overcarbing?

 

[emjay]

Forcecarbing by definition means carbon dioxide, which forms carboxyllic acid, at STP N2 shouldn't affect the process. Question is: how much gas, at what cost, and at whatntemp?

Dissolved carbon dioxide creates carbonic acid, not carboxylic.

I should have worded that better. If one were to use CO2 to push it around wouldn't there be a risk of overcarbing?

It depends entirely on what the overall system pressure is. Something like a spunding valve will bleed any excess pressure (and thus CO2) out into the room.

 

[Norselord]

Dissolved carbon dioxide creates carbonic acid, not carboxylic.


It depends entirely on what the overall system pressure is. Something like a spunding valve will bleed any excess pressure (and thus CO2) out into the room.

I stand corrected -- the way to get carboxyic acid into your beer is to let it oxidize.

 

[DPBISME]

Sub-ed...

 

[crushingblackdoom]

Hey MalFet, any tasting notes yet?
Proud of your work! Looking forward to finished product evaluations...

Definately the most interesting thread I've read on HBT for a while. I can see this becoming a new branch on the home brewer's
MacGuyver Tree of Brilliance & (not so brilliant).

 

[MalFet]

Hey MalFet, any tasting notes yet?
Proud of your work! Looking forward to finished product evaluations...

Yep! Check out post #199.

 

[brant740]

Since the yeast beads will not add much flavor I was thinking about making beads of turbo yeast to add after the initial growth period of the primary bead-less yeast. Would this allow the flavors we want from the yeast plus rapid cleanup an maturation of the beer?

Edit: Just remembered turbo yeast wouldnt stop at the same point as the other yeast so it would probably end up dryer than desired.

 

[MalFet]

Since the yeast beads will not add much flavor I was thinking about making beads of turbo yeast to add after the initial growth period of the primary bead-less yeast. Would this allow the flavors we want from the yeast plus rapid cleanup an maturation of the beer?

For what it's worth, I don't actually agree with the idea that the use of beads removes all yeast character from the equation, and I think my experimental results demonstrate that. Certainly it's different than a baseline ferment, but it's not non-existent.

 

[brant740]

For what it's worth, I don't actually agree with the idea that the use of beads removes all yeast character from the equation, and I think my experimental results demonstrate that. Certainly it's different than a baseline ferment, but it's not non-existent.

Didn't you have some hitch hikers in that batch? Have you reused the beads yet?

 

[MalFet]

Didn't you have some hitch hikers in that batch? Have you reused the beads yet?

I've done a few parallel batches in different arrangements now, though nothing comprehensive yet. In my opinion, it's much too early to be making many conclusions.