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Merz69

Merz69

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Brand new to brewing. My starter kit arrives tomorrow with a kit. So I’m looking at kits for my second brew - but there’s like a list of yeasts with each one … grrrr. How do I know which yeast is best for the kit ? I am looking at a Citra Pale Ale or Mirror Lake from Morebeer. And Cream Ale or Caribou Slobber from Northern Brewer.
 
I usually reach for dry yeast. A very popular one for any style is US-05. Also consider Nottingham, S-04, and London. All of these are good yeasts for just about any style, but with varying attenuation, which is their ability to eat the more complex sugars. London for example is unable to eat a certain sugar called maltotriose, so it will result in a higher final gravity and lower alcohol, with apparent attenuation of about 67%. US-05 is on the opposite end of the spectrum, eating most of the maltotriose and other sugars, with lower FG and higher ABV, with attenuation of about 83%. Both Nottingham and S-04 fall in the middle with attenuation averaging 77-78%. If you are not sure, I would recommend one of the last two yeasts -- I would just use whichever one is cheaper, sometimes you can get a good deal for a buck or two less. So.... it depends on what you want.

I don't know if many people select their yeast based on attenuation, but I sure do. I wish somebody had told me all this when I first started out. Hope this comes in handy for you or anybody out there of any experience level. Cheers.
 
I'm in the "dry yeast unless there's something clearly better/different about selecting a liquid strain" camp. Especially for a second (or first) batch. Safale US-05 is my go-to for pale ales. I like K-97 for a cream ale, but it's a bit more finicky: takes forever to clear and can throw some off flavors under some conditions.
 
You can't go wrong with any of the yeast selections that are recommended with a kit. And each of those recipes is going to be pretty versatile. They'll work with any number of neutral ale yeasts out there. There will be slightly different vibes among each yeast option, but they'll all work. I'd just read the manufacturer descriptions to get a sense of the different flavor profiles.

I also agree with MaxStout that your first question should be whether you want dry or liquid. Dry yeast is less expensive and you get more yeast cells per package. Liquid yeast has a lot more variety, though there generally is not as much yeast in the package as you really need for a healthy fermentation. Once you get more experienced, you can start making liquid yeast starters to bump up the yeast cell counts to the right level without buying multiple packs. Until then, if I were you, I would either favor dry yeast or go with a liquid yeast brand like Imperial, which has a higher cell count per package. Also be super mindful of using liquid yeast when it's fresh. Check the date on the package and try to use it asap.
 
I like K-97 dried yeast, and it is a very easy one to save the yeast to pitch your next batch. (yeast is expensive) You just scoop the yeast off the top of the fermenter. It does take longer to clear than most other ale yeasts.
 
I’ve been looking at the dry yeast. Thanks for your advice. I will have to research some of the mfg sites … is there a database of yeast strains for popular commercial beers ?
 
Kveik yeasts are extremely forgiving. Ferments fast and tolerant of a wide range of temps, but preferably hot, and higher abv, allegedly... My ferm temp control broke and I fermented a session beer at 65ish with a some nutrients and it turned out great. Mangrove Jack is what I use, and sometimes lallemand. Both dry.

I recommend this because new brewers tend to panic and mess with things too much, and these yeasts will ferment faster than you can mess it up, and will produce you a beer faster so you can drink sooner. I've had grain to glass in a week, And new brewers all seem to be more itchy for their first HB.

Lastly, use dry yeasts, whatever you choose. I have many a beer under my belt and it's all I'll ever use, I think. So easy.
 
Merz69 said:
is there a database of yeast strains for popular commercial beers ?
Click to expand...

I have not seen such a thing. HOWEVER... if you know of a very popular beer brand that you would like to emulate, we might either (1) know, (2) be able to make good guesses, or (3) research which yeast they actually use. For instance, I have a database of about 1000 recipes, and while not all of these are from commercial breweries, a good chunk of them do come from the breweries or from good clone recipes.
 
I’m a dry yeaster. They’re cheaper, have a higher cell count, ship better and store longer. My go-to’s, in order:
Nottingham
Diamond lager
Cellar science German lager
Belle saison (mostly for cider)

If I need something special, then I’ll drive 2.5 hours round trip to my local shop and pick out what I need.
 
Because these are your first batches, go simple. US-05 is as basic as it gets and is available in dry form in packet.

Work on your process, you can do all the other yeast types later as you learn. For now use the US-05 and keep things simple.
 
I'd also echo the recommendations for kveik. Check out lutra, which now comes dry. It's got a neutral profile that would work for the recipes you list above. And kveik won't give you off flavors in the warmer temperature range. US-05 is a great workhorse yeast that'll also go well with any of those beers. But when I was starting out and I used it at ambient temperature (as opposed to with temp control in a fridge), I would get a lot of off flavors like harsh fusel alcohols. Gave my beer a hot alcohol edge that made it taste very homebrew-y. I didn't realize the extent of the problem until I started fermenting in a fridge with temp control and it went away. Kveik yeasts won't have that problem at all. You won't need to think about temp and you'll avoid those off flavors.
 
I would recommend kveik, but I sometimes have trouble with it carbonating in the winter. That might just be me. One good thing about it is you buy one pack, and you can reuse it over and over for years.
 
I think it all depends on if you have a LHBS and how fresh the liquid yeasts are. I have started to use the dry yeasts more since our local shop closed and the only options are a 3 hour drive each way or to rely on the mail. Definitely invest in temperate control early if you plan on sticking with the hobby. I agree with the US-05 recommendations. If you want a good liquid yeast and money is not an issue go with the Imperial A18 Joystick or A24 Dry Hop for IPAs. They pack twice the cell count of standard liquid yeasts at a premium of course.
 
The recipes I looked at don’t include kveik as an option. I’ll have to save that one for when I graduate from extract brewing. I’m obsessively researching home brewing ;) and getting some equipment. I found a co2 tank with a regulator and corny for $100. Picking up some free bottles and a drying tree. Got a freezer for temp control fermenting until it becomes a keezer ;)
 
Merz69 said:
The recipes I looked at don’t include kveik as an option. I’ll have to save that one for when I graduate from extract brewing. I’m obsessively researching home brewing ;) and getting some equipment. I found a co2 tank with a regulator and corny for $100. Picking up some free bottles and a drying tree. Got a freezer for temp control fermenting until it becomes a keezer ;)
Click to expand...
The recipes don't include kveik yeast because it wasn't available yet when they were written. Go ahead and use it and put that into the recipe you write and it will be there for the next person.

What do you mean "graduate from extract brewing". There is no "graduate", there are just different ways to get wort to make your beer from. Extract brewers can make just as good of beer and all grain brewers and that can be proven by the fact that they win awards for their beer. Instead of thinking about graduating, think about refining your technique until you make the award winning beer.
 
RM-MN said:
The recipes don't include kveik yeast because it wasn't available yet when they were written. Go ahead and use it and put that into the recipe you write and it will be there for the next person.

What do you mean "graduate from extract brewing". There is no "graduate", there are just different ways to get wort to make your beer from. Extract brewers can make just as good of beer and all grain brewers and that can be proven by the fact that they win awards for their beer. Instead of thinking about graduating, think about refining your technique until you make the award winning beer.
Click to expand...
The current homebrewer of the year won with an extract recipe.
 
I just started picking my own yeast to use with the beer recipe kits I've got remaining in stock. I now use their packet for home made bread and US-05 currently for the beer kits. There is quite a difference and I'm really impressed with US-05 for the ales I've brewed with it.

When given a selection of yeast in the recipe, you need to go and look at the spec's for each of those yeasts and determine if there are any differences between them that might be impacted by your processes. One big one being the optimal fermentation temp range. If you don't do anything but just let ambient air temps handle it then pick the one that has the more forgiving temp range or is in the range of your current ambient air temps.

You may even want to look at any differences they might give for flavor and aroma notes that some yeasts bring to the party. Especially if you are not picking from a selection you are presented.

I'm firmly in the dry yeast side of the argument for dry or liquid. There are just too many good dry yeasts available now. The vast selection, shelf life and simplification of brew day it brings makes it a good choice for me.
 
Merz69 said:
The recipes I looked at don’t include kveik as an option
Click to expand...
Almost all of the sites that I haunt where they offer different yeasts for their kits also list "I have my own" or some such as an option. Just chose that and the go to the yeast section and pick your poison if you want something else. The yeasts that are recommended have been chosen because they know they will work OK. They want you to have a successful brew and come back to them to buy more great tasting beer kits. Deviating from the "recommended", in due time, is one of the things about home brewing that makes your beer "your beer", but now you just want to make beer.
Stay on the plan, or recipe for your first few beers. The chances of you continuing to brew as a hobby depends on your first couple of brews tasting good enough to drink. All that said, it's up to you to do what you want.
Again good luck!
Cheers, :mug:
Joel B.
 
This is an interesting topic.

Back when I started homebrewing, dry yeast was mostly just came in packs labeled "Ale" or "Lager" and it had a reputation (that was probably true) for not being as pure as liquid yeasts. I used a lot of packs of WLP001/WY1056 and used a mix of other liquid yeasts (mostly whatever the recipe called for).

These days there are so many good quality dry yeasts, that I would definitely recommend a new brewer start there. One could probably make a wide variety of very good beers just using US-05 (for any American styles) and S-04 (for any English styles). Throw W-34/70 into the mix for lager styles, and you can make a lot of good beer with just 3 yeasts from Fermentis.

Though, I have been developing a fondness for strains from Lallemand lately.

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/canada/products/brewing-yeast/
Lallemand has a number of really nice dry yeasts...Abbey, Belle Saison, Voss, Verdant, etc. My last American IPA made with BRY-97 turned out quite nice. I have it on my list to try more Lallemand yeasts over the next year. Lallemand has been introducing more new yeasts over the past few years, where Fermentis seems focused on trying to convince people that they can make any beer with just the existing Fermentis lineup.

There was a thread about Kveik for new brewers, that got a bit polarized. Hoppy beers with Voss are a core part of my recipe rotation. It is a really easy yeast to work with, especially for those that cannot keep fermentation temps cool.
 
RM-MN said:
The recipes don't include kveik yeast because it wasn't available yet when they were written. Go ahead and use it and put that into the recipe you write and it will be there for the next person.

What do you mean "graduate from extract brewing". There is no "graduate", there are just different ways to get wort to make your beer from. Extract brewers can make just as good of beer and all grain brewers and that can be proven by the fact that they win awards for their beer. Instead of thinking about graduating, think about refining your technique until you make the award winning beer.
Click to expand...
I am under the impression, (and I'm not interested in investigating the truth) that I can make wort at a lower cost with all-grain than I can with DME or LME.
But I ignore the cost of my time and the added equipment for storing and mashing etc.
I just like doing it so I do.
 
CascadesBrewer said:
Lallemand has a number of really nice dry yeasts...
Click to expand...
^^^This.
Something I have noticed is that Lallemand yeasts don't seem to show up in many yeast options for kits, least that I have noticed. Makes me wonder if there might be a back room "pay to play" going on. 🤔.. I too have been using Lallemand exclusively this year and are quite happy with them.
Cheers, :mug:
Joel B.
 
PCABrewing said:
I am under the impression, (and I'm not interested in investigating the truth) that I can make wort at a lower cost with all-grain than I can with DME or LME.
Click to expand...

There is definitely a cost savings in ingredients with all-grain brewing. 6 lbs of Briess DME will cost me around $30 at my local store. The same 10 lbs of Briess Brewers Malt needed would cost me $18. If I am purchasing grain in 50 lb bags, that drops down to around $11...though the DME drops to around $20 if I purchase that in 50 lb bags.

I also enjoy all-grain brewing. It does open you up to a much wider variety of base malts (vs extract from only a couple manufacturers) and mashing (full or partial) makes it much easier to incorporate many specialty grains (Vienna, Biscuit, Honey Malt, etc.). Mash temperatures and different mash schedules give a little more control over the end product as well.
 
kartracer2 said:
OK, as in a larger profit margin for one over the other.
Is that a safe assumption?
Click to expand...
Just as speculative as Pay for Play. As I said I don't know, just tossing it out there as a possibility.
Could just as easily be an oversight or a preference of whomever prepared the offer of the kit.
 
If it's a matter of degree from extract to all grain, there are degrees.
 
As a novice dipping his toes in the wort, just select a dry yeast that the kit seller recommends. It's unlikely to be kveik, btw. Brewing is a multifaceted process. It's not necessarily complicated either. Just learn the basics of the process then start to consider things like yeast choice, if your curiosity drags you in that direction.
 
CascadesBrewer said:
Lallemand has a number of really nice dry yeasts...Abbey, Belle Saison, Voss, Verdant, etc. My last American IPA made with BRY-97 turned out quite nice.
Click to expand...
I remember when it seemed like there was 2 or three dry yeast options (Muntons and a couple others) and liquid was pretty-much unheard of.

I have purchased BRY-97 to try and never got around to it, though I have heard plenty of good reports about Lallemand.
As they expand their offering I will definitely give them a try.
 
McMullan said:
...Brewing is a multifaceted process. It's not necessarily complicated either. Just learn the basics of the process then start to consider things like yeast choice, if your curiosity drags you in that direction.
Click to expand...

You beat me to it.

Figure out and perfect your processes since you're still wet behind the ears. Once you've got a solid process start to finish, start looking into yeasts and different techniques. This hobby/addiction is all about learning about beer and having fun with it. I have made a cream ale with WLP005(English Ale) and it was a family favorite, made it on a whim. So figure out your next brew, pitch some dry yeast and have fun learning YOUR process.
 
McMullan said:
As a novice dipping his toes in the wort, just select a dry yeast that the kit seller recommends. It's unlikely to be kveik, btw. Brewing is a multifaceted process. It's not necessarily complicated either. Just learn the basics of the process then start to consider things like yeast choice, if your curiosity drags you in that direction.
Click to expand...

This.
Work on the basics first, don't over-complicate things. Do the basics until it's second nature then build on that. The best way to ruin a new hobby is to try to do too much too soon, have it not turn out well, and get discouraged early.

You can make really good beers from the get-go with just a few ingredients and a little diligence.
 
MaxStout said:
This.
Work on the basics first, don't over-complicate things. Do the basics until it's second nature then build on that. The best way to ruin a new hobby is to try to do too much too soon, have it not turn out well, and get discouraged early.

You can make really good beers from the get-go with just a few ingredients and a little diligence.
Click to expand...

My brewing improved quite a bit when I brewed the same simple beer over and over for a year. (or very slight variations that changed only one thing, like use a different yeast, or different hops, or 2-row instead of pils) If I recall correctly it was 85% cheap pilsner malt, 15% Munich, and modestly hopped.
 
This thread has seemed to turn. I’m not trying to complicate any variables. Just looking to pick a good yeast from a drill down menu on some extract kits. I was expecting the store to put the proper yeast in with the kit … but they’ve gone and made things difficult by giving me a choice ! Lol !! Thank you all for solid advice. I actually found a LHB shop today, so I think I will get my next kit there rather than order it from an online source … you know … support my local merchants :).
 

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