yeast calculator and overpitching

[olotti]

Brewing a RIS at 1.106 hopefully. Making a 5.5L starter with WLP002, using a 2.5L then stepping up into a 3L starter. I'm using the swirl method as for whatever reason I don't have a stirplate yet. So in Beersmith with my recipe it calls for 365 billion yeast cells, this starter will get me according to Beersmith 340 Billion. So I then plugged all the info into yeastcalculator.com it says I need 490 Billion cells and with this starter and step up with swirling it will net me 540 Billion cells. Which amount am I to believe because I could way overpitch this if according to the Beersmith calculations I only need 365 Billion cells and. IDK maybe its not even an issue. I just want a big enough starter to finish at 1.028 FG and still leave enough yeast in suspension so I don't have problems with carbonation come bottling time.

 

[j1n]

get a mason jar, sanitize it and put some extra yeast into it and save it for later. i always make bigger starters than i need so i can save some yeast for later. Or just pitch it all. im sure over pitching by a little isnt going to hurt the beer at all.

 

[olotti]

Any other thoughts.

 

[flars]

Brewing a RIS at 1.106 hopefully. Making a 5.5L starter with WLP002, using a 2.5L then stepping up into a 3L starter. I'm using the swirl method as for whatever reason I don't have a stirplate yet. So in Beersmith with my recipe it calls for 365 billion yeast cells, this starter will get me according to Beersmith 340 Billion. So I then plugged all the info into yeastcalculator.com it says I need 490 Billion cells and with this starter and step up with swirling it will net me 540 Billion cells. Which amount am I to believe because I could way overpitch this if according to the Beersmith calculations I only need 365 Billion cells and. IDK maybe its not even an issue. I just want a big enough starter to finish at 1.028 FG and still leave enough yeast in suspension so I don't have problems with carbonation come bottling time.

Go with Yeastcalc. According to Brewers Friend you would need at least 522 billion. Beersmith is probably using a pitch rate for a standard gravity ale. You need a pitch rate for a high gravity ale.

 

[olotti]

Go with Yeastcalc. According to Brewers Friend you would need at least 522 billion. Beersmith is probably using a pitch rate for a standard gravity ale. You need a pitch rate for a high gravity ale.

So I should be ok with following my plan of stepping up to a 3L starter after cold crashing and decanting the 2.5L starter as yeastcalc. has me at 540 billion cells after the doing the 3L step up?

 

[flars]

I don't come up with the same numbers in the calculator. What is the expiration date of the White Labs yeast?

 

[olotti]

I don't come up with the same numbers in the calculator. What is the expiration date of the White Labs yeast?

There wasn't one on the vial it just had best used by date of 12/14. Guy at LHBS said he just got it in so I plugged in 8/1/14 as my date in the calculator.

 

[flars]

The production date would be 6/14. Use 6/15/2014 as a middle of the month production date.
Take a look at this calculator. Has good descriptions of the different pitch rates based on estimated OG. More information below the calculator screens.
http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

 

[olotti]

The production date would be 6/14. Use 6/15/2014 as a middle of the month production date.
Take a look at this calculator. Has good descriptions of the different pitch rates based on estimated OG. More information below the calculator screens.
http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

So according to this I'd b underpitching if I stick with my plan. Ugh well so confused how to make this right as I don't have time to do a third step up.

 

[flars]

What are your chances of getting another vial of yeast? Could you use this yeast to brew a smaller beer? A smaller beer would have a yeast cake in the fermentor to brew your RIS.

 

[olotti]

What are your chances of getting another vial of yeast? Could you use this yeast to brew a smaller beer? A smaller beer would have a yeast cake in the fermentor to brew your RIS.

I may b able to find another vial Monday but then what??? Ill prob just cold crash the current starter tomm morning. I don't have time to brew a smaller beer before Thursday unfortunately. Ill cold crash till Monday Maybe I can grab another vial and make another 2.5L starter??? Is that what your thinking.

 

[kaconga]

How badly are you thinking of underpitching? If you are 80% of the way there then I think you can reasonably expect a good fermentation. If you are under by 40% or more then get more yeast.

Another consideration would be to brew a lower gravity beer to start and then add some extract after a few days of active fermentation to get your targeted gravity. Staggered feedings is sometimes used in mead and can help by not over stressing the yeast. Just an outside the box solution.

 

[flars]

I may b able to find another vial Monday but then what??? Ill prob just cold crash the current starter tomm morning. I don't have time to brew a smaller beer before Thursday unfortunately. Ill cold crash till Monday Maybe I can grab another vial and make another 2.5L starter??? Is that what your thinking.

Make sure your first starter is completed, cold crash it, step it up. Start another starter with the new vial and your should be ready for Thursday with all the yeast you need.

 

[flars]

Should have said cold crash and then decant the spent wort. Add new wort for the stepping it up. Also, any container will do for a starter. My favorite for the stir plate is a 1.1 gallon Rubber Maid storage container.

 

[olotti]

How badly are you thinking of underpitching? If you are 80% of the way there then I think you can reasonably expect a good fermentation. If you are under by 40% or more then get more yeast.

Another consideration would be to brew a lower gravity beer to start and then add some extract after a few days of active fermentation to get your targeted gravity. Staggered feedings is sometimes used in mead and can help by not over stressing the yeast. Just an outside the box solution.

Brewers friend has my target at 490 Billion cells and with my method as referenced above I get a target of 438 Billion cells. Close enough to be safe you think?

 

[olotti]

Make sure your first starter is completed, cold crash it, step it up. Start another starter with the new vial and your should be ready for Thursday with all the yeast you need.

If I can find another vial what size starter should I do? My only other vessel is a 2L flask if that matters.

 

[flars]

If I can find another vial what size starter should I do? My only other vessel is a 2L flask if that matters.

My last post isn't here. In it I said you can use any container to make a starter. I still use large pickle jars for shake and swirl method. My favorite for the stir plate is a 1.1 gallon plastic Rubber Maid food storage container.

 

[flars]

Brewers friend has my target at 490 Billion cells and with my method as referenced above I get a target of 438 Billion cells. Close enough to be safe you think?

With these numbers from your calculations you should be okay. I tend to over pitch just to be safe. Over pitching to the point of being detrimental is hard to do. An under pitch which ends in a stalled fermentation is hard to recover from.

 

[kaconga]

Brewers friend has my target at 490 Billion cells and with my method as referenced above I get a target of 438 Billion cells. Close enough to be safe you think?

Within 10% is usually considered safe, you are just shy of that. I would consider it close enough and pitch a tad short.

 

[shtoive87]

A best by date of 12/14 means a production date of 8/14. Why is 6/15/14 being used as the date?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[olotti]

A best by date of 12/14 means a production date of 8/14. Why is 6/15/14 being used as the date?


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

This is better news how did u figure this out????

 

[Black Island Brewer]

According to White Labs their yeast has a shelf life of four months, so the assumption is the pack date is four months from the best by date. http://www.whitelabs.com/faq

 

[shtoive87]

This is better news how did u figure this out????

As mentioned, whitelabs.com/faq:

What is the shelf life of White Labs Yeast?
Quick Answer: 4 Months
Long Answer: Yeast is a living organism. As such, it needs to be in the right conditions to survive. Dry yeast can stay alive for one year, but yeast left in liquid form, even though it's a better product in terms of taste and performance, is more perishable. At White Labs, we are constantly working on our recipe to maximize the viability of the yeast in long term storage. The longer we can make the yeast last in the vial, the better shape it will be in for fermentation. After 30 days in the vial, the viability of our yeast is 75-85%, which is very high for liquid yeast. Yeast that is harvested after a brewery fermentation will typically have a viability of less then 50% after 30 days. Our high viability is due to the health of the yeast and nutrient content of our liquid at packaging. After 6 weeks, lag time before active fermentation is usually between 15-20 hours. The shelf life for White Labs Yeast is four months. Yeast used after this point is usually fine, but lag times will be longer. There will be living yeast in most vials for 6-12 months, so if a starter is made to activate the yeast, successful fermentations can be carried out with aged yeast.

More explicitly, on mrmalty.com:

When using White Labs vials, the date on the vial is a 'best by' date and the production date is 4 months prior to that for ale and lager yeasts (6 months for brett and bacteria products).

 

[shtoive87]

I just plugged in your numbers to brewersfriend, and your original plan of 2.5L stepped up to 3L will give the yeast you need.

With very high gravity beers (>1.085) many pro brewers advocate aerating when you pitch (before or after, doesn't matter), as well as 12-18 hours later. This will ensure all the new yeast will be healthy enough to finish the beer. Because this is very early in fermentation, you won't have to worry about negative oxidation effects. Good luck!

 

[olotti]

I just plugged in your numbers to brewersfriend, and your original plan of 2.5L stepped up to 3L will give the yeast you need.

With very high gravity beers (>1.085) many pro brewers advocate aerating when you pitch (before or after, doesn't matter), as well as 12-18 hours later. This will ensure all the new yeast will be healthy enough to finish the beer. Because this is very early in fermentation, you won't have to worry about negative oxidation effects. Good luck!

I planned on using my O2 want to really aerate the wort, I may as u suggest do it again in 18hrs just to make sure they have all they need.

Separate question. IS Golden Light DME ok to use for my step up starter. Just realized this is what I bought yesterday to do the starter.

 

[Black Island Brewer]

I planned on using my O2 want to really aerate the wort, I may as u suggest do it again in 18hrs just to make sure they have all they need.

Separate question. IS Golden Light DME ok to use for my step up starter. Just realized this is what I bought yesterday to do the starter.

The light DME is perfect. Most will make it 1.030 to 1.040.