yeast after fermentation cleanup

[scottab]

I've been hearing a lot about yeast cleaning up after themselves by leaving brew on he cake for a few weeks after fermentation completes. i've been racking to secondary after the krausen dies down but while the yeast is still in suspension. My carboy is a 5 gal better bottle and not really meant for fermentation just for secondary. I like to see when my yeast has flocculated and tend to find about 1/4-1/2 inch cake in the bottom of the carboy. So my question is if there is quite a bit of yeast still in suspension is this yeast unable to metabolize the byproducts of fermentation because there isn't the heavy "cake" on the bottom? What is the taste i would associate with incomplete yeast cleanup?

 

[scottab]

Anyone have comments?

 

[Buna_Bere]

It only takes the yeast a couple of days after final gravity is reached to metabolize their fermentation byproducts. Diacetyl and Acetaldehyde are the two big ones that the yeast will convert into other compounds that are much harder to taste in a finished beer.

 

[duboman]

If I'm understanding your question....
Basically what you want to do is first perform a proper fermentation at the correct temperatures to avoid any off flavors, poor attenuation, etc.

Assuming you do that and verify FG then you can move to a secondary clearing vessel and allow the yeast to flocculate and the beer to clear as well as dry hop, oak or fruit. There should really be no further fermentation occurring at this point.

If you have poor means of temperature control and are concerned about off flavors then the best place for the beer is to remain on the yeast cake in primary for additional time to help metabolize those flavors and "clean up". The reason is while some yeast may still be in suspension, some yeast has already dropped. You want the balance of the yeast to do the work, not just the cells that were slow to drop.

Hope that helps!

 

[scottab]

If I'm understanding your question....
Basically what you want to do is first perform a proper fermentation at the correct temperatures to avoid any off flavors, poor attenuation, etc.

Assuming you do that and verify FG then you can move to a secondary clearing vessel and allow the yeast to flocculate and the beer to clear as well as dry hop, oak or fruit. There should really be no further fermentation occurring at this point.

If you have poor means of temperature control and are concerned about off flavors then the best place for the beer is to remain on the yeast cake in primary for additional time to help metabolize those flavors and "clean up". The reason is while some yeast may still be in suspension, some yeast has already dropped. You want the balance of the yeast to do the work, not just the cells that were slow to drop.

Hope that helps!

I'm able to control ale temps pretty well by keeping 2l frozen soda bottles switched out in the water filled cooler i place the fermentation vessel in... my question is more about the yeast cleanup and from the first response i gather it is not necessary to keep the brew on the cake in the primary for a full 3 weeks and racking to secondary to clarify is not going to leave me with off flavors due to yeast not cleaning up after itself.

 

[duboman]

I'm able to control ale temps pretty well by keeping 2l frozen soda bottles switched out in the water filled cooler i place the fermentation vessel in... my question is more about the yeast cleanup and from the first response i gather it is not necessary to keep the brew on the cake in the primary for a full 3 weeks and racking to secondary to clarify is not going to leave me with off flavors due to yeast not cleaning up after itself.

Correct, racking to secondary does not create off flavors, nor does keeping the beer on the yeast for extended time. If you favor the use of secondary then once you reach FG you can rack with no problem and clear/condition in secondary.

Or, as many of us do you can just keep the beer in primary for the entire process and bottle when ready. I usually go 3 weeks primary and bottle.

 

[pdxal]

I'm able to control ale temps pretty well by keeping 2l frozen soda bottles switched out in the water filled cooler i place the fermentation vessel in... my question is more about the yeast cleanup and from the first response i gather it is not necessary to keep the brew on the cake in the primary for a full 3 weeks and racking to secondary to clarify is not going to leave me with off flavors due to yeast not cleaning up after itself.

It is also not necessary to move the yeast off the cake into secondary.
Time and cold crashing, along with fining agents if needed, will clear pretty much any beer.
Another thing to note is that early flocculating yeast and yeast that remain in suspension longer perform differently (check how many "my beer won't finish in secondary" threads there are on here).

 

[duboman]

it is also not necessary to move the yeast off the cake into secondary.
Time and cold crashing, along with fining agents if needed, will clear pretty much any beer.
Another thing to note is that early flocculating yeast and yeast that remain in suspension longer perform differently (check how many "my beer won't finish in secondary" threads there are on here).

+1

 

[Yooper]

I'm able to control ale temps pretty well by keeping 2l frozen soda bottles switched out in the water filled cooler i place the fermentation vessel in... my question is more about the yeast cleanup and from the first response i gather it is not necessary to keep the brew on the cake in the primary for a full 3 weeks and racking to secondary to clarify is not going to leave me with off flavors due to yeast not cleaning up after itself.

Well, I've never left a beer in primary for three weeks, but it's fine if you do.

As far as the yeast "clean up", this happens about by about 48 hours after FG is reached.

What I would suggest for the next batch is to leave it in primary for about 10 days, or until about 3 days after FG is reached (or fermentation slows down to a crawl). Then, either package or rack.

It'd be great if you had a beer that you racked to the clearing vessel earlier, to compare the results, but if not you could make careful tasting notes and see if you prefer the "cleaner" taste of one over the other.

My preference is to go primary for 10-14 days and then package. It seems to give me the best, "cleanest" ale flavors. Some prefer a slight yeast character from leaving it in primary 3-4+ weeks, while others like me prefer no longer than about 14 days in primay.

 

[scottab]

Correct, racking to secondary does not create off flavors, nor does keeping the beer on the yeast for extended time. If you favor the use of secondary then once you reach FG you can rack with no problem and clear/condition in secondary.

Or, as many of us do you can just keep the beer in primary for the entire process and bottle when ready. I usually go 3 weeks primary and bottle.

My primary is also my bottle bucket, so for that reason i've been using a secondary... i guess i need to get either get a 6g PET bottle, a 6.5g carboy or a 7g ale pail if i would want to keep my beer in the primary. How do others handle this?

 

[Yooper]

My primary is also my bottle bucket, so for that reason i've been using a secondary... i guess i need to get either a 6g pet, or 6.5 carboy or a 7g ale pail if i would want to keep my beer in the primary. How do others handle this?

I use an "ale pail" and then keg or bottle when the beer is ready.

 

[scottab]

I use an "ale pail" and then keg or bottle when the beer is ready.

I'd like to get some kegs but don't have the fridge space for a full 5g corny. For my 40th in november i'm thinking of getting a couple 2.5 kegs, either that or a couple 5's and a counter-pressure filler to fill growlers.

 

[Yooper]

I'd like to get some kegs but don't have the fridge space for a full 5g corny. For my 40th in november i'm thinking of getting a couple 2.5 kegs, either that or a couple 5's and a counter-pressure filler to fill growlers.

Well, you need fridge space to CP growlers from your kegs, so that might not work. But the smaller kegs work fine, if you can fit a system in your fridge.

 

[scottab]

Well, you need fridge space to CP growlers from your kegs, so that might not work. But the smaller kegs work fine, if you can fit a system in your fridge.

I thought i could cp the growlers as needed, is that incorrect?

 

[Yooper]

I thought i could cp the growlers as needed, is that incorrect?

Oh, sure, you can. But you need to keep the keg cold, otherwise warm beer foams like a SOB and you won't have any carbonation in the growler.

 

[scottab]

Oh, sure, you can. But you need to keep the keg cold, otherwise warm beer foams like a SOB and you won't have any carbonation in the growler.

Well then looks like it will be small kegs as opposed to the larger one... at least till i can afford a dedicated fridge.

 

[scottab]

Well, I've never left a beer in primary for three weeks, but it's fine if you do.

As far as the yeast "clean up", this happens about by about 48 hours after FG is reached.

What I would suggest for the next batch is to leave it in primary for about 10 days, or until about 3 days after FG is reached (or fermentation slows down to a crawl). Then, either package or rack.

It'd be great if you had a beer that you racked to the clearing vessel earlier, to compare the results, but if not you could make careful tasting notes and see if you prefer the "cleaner" taste of one over the other.

My preference is to go primary for 10-14 days and then package. It seems to give me the best, "cleanest" ale flavors. Some prefer a slight yeast character from leaving it in primary 3-4+ weeks, while others like me prefer no longer than about 14 days in primay.

I usually go about 7-10 days before i rack to secondary to clear the brew then about 2 weeks in the secondary before bottling.

 

[Yooper]

I usually go about 7-10 days before i rack to secondary to clear the brew then about 2 weeks in the secondary before bottling.

Then, why not skip the clearing vessel next time, and bottle from there? See if you even notice a difference, and if you do if you like it. That'd be a great way to see if you want to continue or not.

 

[scottab]

Then, why not skip the clearing vessel next time, and bottle from there? See if you even notice a difference, and if you do if you like it. That'd be a great way to see if you want to continue or not.

Again, the reason i rack to secondary then let it clear is 2 fold one is that my primary is also my bottle bucket and two because i want nice clear beer... when i start kegging it will be a different story i think.