Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison Stall

[duncan.brown]

I made a 2 step starter for 10 gallons 1.6 liter then 2.0 liter for .86 cells/ml/°P according to brewers friend calculator. It was split into 2 5 gallon buckets with approximately 1/2 yeast in each. I did not cold crash or decant the starter

Thanks. My cell count was a bit lower than yours (0.75M cells / mL / °P for a 5 gal batch). I'm going to re-brew this with a slightly higher pitch rate and without letting the temperature drop. I'll do a closed fermentation first and then repeat with open.

I did drink my hydrometer sample and it tasted great. Still yeast in suspension, but definitely got the phenolic character I was looking for.

 

[Queequeg]

I did need all the replies so sorry if it been said.

IMO you have over pitched and as such you don't have enough daughter cells "born" during the growth phase. So you relying on a single generation to ferment the whole batch.

You have also pitch too warm. Belgian yeast don't like temperature drops, pitching warm means the wort will cool at fermentation slows. You better off pitching cooler say 70 and let it free rise and was it gets towards the last 25% heat it up. You want the temp to continuously rise during fermentation, left to its own devices the opposite will happen and you risk a stall. This problem is compounded by your very high pitch rate.

Also I don't know what your O2 practices are but I always use 60 secs of pure O2 at 1L/min.

I have never had problems with that yeast or other Belgians/saison strains

 

[Gregory T]

Thanks. My cell count was a bit lower than yours (0.75M cells / mL / °P for a 5 gal batch). I'm going to re-brew this with a slightly higher pitch rate and without letting the temperature drop. I'll do a closed fermentation first and then repeat with open.

I did drink my hydrometer sample and it tasted great. Still yeast in suspension, but definitely got the phenolic character I was looking for.

I hope you will update here on the next batch. I was t able to get this one as warm as I’d like.

I am obviously a big believer in open fermentation with this yeast. I found it interesting even when Marshall from brulosophy did it without a stall he was constantly opening the fermentor to test

I lean towards the yeast being overly sensitive to CO2 dissolved in the wort which is obviously effected by temperature, agitation, and removing the airlock so it escapes.

 

[Twinkeelfool]

Stall or not, it’s definitely worth the effort. Champagne bottles and lots of CO2 as well

 

[rhys333]

I'm curious to know how that second batch using the harvested yeast is coming along @duncan.brown

 

[duncan.brown]

I kegged this beer at 1.004 and it's currently carbonating (it tasted great when I kegged it).

Life got in the way of harvesting the yeast from this batch, but I just picked up a fresh packet of 3724 from the LHBS and I'm going to try the second experiment first: I'll make the same sized starter from the fresh pack, pitch at 70F, raise the temp to 80F and keep it there without ever letting the temperature drop (with closed fermentation). This will tell me if it was the temp drop that slowed the yeast down.

I'm betting that I'll see a similar month long ferment to get below 1.010.

After that, I'll post the results, harvest the yeast, and re-pitch. Then I'll try open fermentation, if needed. I'll keep updating this thread with results.

Here's the final fermentation profile of the original batch at kegging.

 

[NTexBrewer]

I was talking with a brewing friend about this thread the other day. He relayed what most have stated regarding pitching the yeast slurry produces faster fermentations and better phenolic qualities.

last time I brewed with 3724 I added a little of M29 French Saison yeast sprinkled on top to ensure a consistent fermentation. Final gravity in 12 days. Best Saison I’ve brewed and it won 1st place at the 2020 Belgian Brew Brawl.

I was intrigued by what my friend said about pitching the slurry so I’m planning to set up a run of beers. First a 3 gallon batch of Belgian Pale Ale, Then use the slurry for a 3 gallon batch of Hommel Bier, then use the Slurry for a 5 gallon Saison.

 

[Gregory T]

Just put mine in for cold crash. One was at 1.001 and the other at 1.002.

 

[duncan.brown]

The original batch is now carbed to 3 volumes, which is giving my flow-control taps a workout, but it is delicious. A bit darker than I was going for, but can't blame the yeast for that.

Definitely going to follow through on these experiments and brew a few more batches.