Wyeast 3711 French Saison

[phuff7129]

There are a lot of conflicting reports about temp with 3711 but I got much better flavor from 70-80 than 60-70.

That's good information. My understanding is at lower temps ester production will be somewhat muted and phenol production will be emphasized. I have read that a great way to manage fermentation on a Saison is to start it on the low end of temp and increase the temp into the 80's over approx. 5 days. It's thought that this gives you the best phenol and ester production.
I am new to brewing saisons and I wanted to be able to experiment with different types of fermentation and some different types of yeast. Also I've had a few saisons which I thought were just too funky and I thought it might be from high ester production so I decided to keep this fermentation cool to inhibit ester production to see if that suits my taste. When I checked gravity it smelled and tasted great. I can't wait to get it carbed. Here's a question. What level to you guys carb your saisons and do you bottle or keg?

 

[Polboy]

That's good information. My understanding is at lower temps ester production will be somewhat muted and phenol production will be emphasized. I have read that a great way to manage fermentation on a Saison is to start it on the low end of temp and increase the temp into the 80's over approx. 5 days. It's thought that this gives you the best phenol and ester production.
I am new to brewing saisons and I wanted to be able to experiment with different types of fermentation and some different types of yeast. Also I've had a few saisons which I thought were just too funky and I thought it might be from high ester production so I decided to keep this fermentation cool to inhibit ester production to see if that suits my taste. When I checked gravity it smelled and tasted great. I can't wait to get it carbed. Here's a question. What level to you guys carb your saisons and do you bottle or keg?

I bottle but i bottle all my beer and when some beers are better in the bottle i dont think saison is one of them as it doesnt age very well, for co2 i like to get it to 3 volume

 

[BigRob]

I think you could spend years figuring out the nuances of 3711 and how temp affects it.

Also Saison is traditionally a bottled beer, and it ages exceedingly well.

 

[sweetcell]

i bottle in thick belgian bottles (mostly Duvel bottles) and i typically carb in the 3.5 range. i wouldn't go that high with regular bottle, i'd stay around 2.7-2.8.

saisons age very nicely although i find a higher alcohol level (say over 6%) helps. magic happens when you add brett and let that sit for a few months.

 

[highgravitybacon]

i bottle in thick belgian bottles (mostly Duvel bottles) and i typically carb in the 3.5 range. i wouldn't go that high with regular bottle, i'd stay around 2.7-2.8.

saisons age very nicely although i find a higher alcohol level (say over 6%) helps. magic happens when you add brett and let that sit for a few months.

I go to 3.5 in regular bottles all the time. No issue.

 

[tagz]

Ok I'm brewing up another. Any objections to starting at 70-72 rather than the usual 68? I see a lot of people say that fusels are not a problem...

 

[Piratwolf]

Tagz,

You'll be fine at those temps. Expect more of the fruit esters, less of the spicy phenols. Good for summer!

 

[maltoftheearth]

I used 3711 on my saison this summer. Let it sit for three weeks in primary - mostly at 80-85F - and removed it from the freezer yesterday to keg. When I did the yeast kicked up at the bottom and began fermenting all over again (bubbles and new krausen for the last 24 hours since!) So now I need to wait some more with my carboy wrapped in a dark blanket on my kitchen floor. Once the bubbles stop I'll drop soome gelatin on this bad boy and be done with it.

 

[ChshreCat]

I used 3711 on my saison this summer. Let it sit for three weeks in primary - mostly at 80-85F - and removed it from the freezer yesterday to keg. When I did the yeast kicked up at the bottom and began fermenting all over again (bubbles and new krausen for the last 24 hours since!) So now I need to wait some more with my carboy wrapped in a dark blanket on my kitchen floor. Once the bubbles stop I'll drop soome gelatin on this bad boy and be done with it.

Did you take a hydrometer reading?

 

[maltoftheearth]

No, no hydrometer reading yet. I'll take one tonight since activity has stopped, then see if we're ready for gelatin.

 

[theQ]

3 weeks of fermenting at 65-66F dropped the gravity to almost 1.000! (from 1.050)

I split my batches in 2 5gals and the other half was WL550 but was clearly not as citricy as this one! Next time I'd do a ramp up fermentation starting at 66F and ramp it up to 72F!

 

[DrWill]

3 weeks of fermenting at 65-66F dropped the gravity to almost 1.000! (from 1.050)

I split my batches in 2 5gals and the other half was WL550 but was clearly not as citricy as this one! Next time I'd do a ramp up fermentation starting at 66F and ramp it up to 72F!

Sounds really close to the Saison I just kegged. 1.056 to 1.000. Took a few weeks and I fermented hot. Smells like heaven though.

 

[Damoxemus]

I've got 3711 in my fridge to use my saison that I was *supposed* to brew today (grumble) but will brew soon.

I'd be curious if anyone who used 3724 might try the same or a similar recipe with 3711 to how they compare flavor wise.

A buddy if mine and I did a 10 gallon batch and split it with 3711 going into 5 and 3724 going into another 5.

His stuck, and he finished win s-05. Mine finished very low at .001! I really like it, nice spicy taste. His was a bit smoother though, maybe a bit more palatable to those who might not like such a peppery/clove like spice.

 

[Polboy]

i did 2 split batches with 3711 and 3724, dont have my notes in front of me but from memory 3711 is maintenance free and delivers great results in short time, extremely dry and refreshing with great body and flavor profile. You can get very interesting beer with 3724 but it will take much longer and at high temperature with FG still higher than 3711. For higher OG beers i would be careful with 3711 as it will make alcohol forward beer that could be too much (that the 2nd split batch, i ended up with 9%+ ABV beer after two weeks fermentation with 3711 and even after 4 months in the bottle alcohol flavor in predominant where 3724 batch is still finishing (added brett) with FG like 3711 but great flavor so far)

 

[Sebas83]

3724 just needs heat. Like 85/90. Never gave me a problem. +1 on the high abv beers though. At%8 you start dealing with fusels. But, you can start your ferment at 60 and ramp up to get over the 1.020 hump.

 

[Redhawk96]

I have made three Saison batches using the 3711 with the basic recipe below, with only a few tweaks by batch 3 (no pepper, Citra hops instead of Sorachi Ace). All three batches were great, and very similar in flavor.

About two months ago I made the exact same recipe and substituted in the 3724 yeast. I kept it at ~85 F for 3 weeks or so, which was a bit of a challenge, vs. the 3711, which I just moved to a warmer room in the house (`75 F or so).

I find that I like the 3711 Saison much better than the 3724, though the 3724 still made good beer, just not as good as the 3711. I feel like the 3711 gives a much more "traditional" Saison flavor, with taste notes more similar to what you expect from the style, and it is much easier to handle.


https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f71/cottage-house-saison-254684/

 

[fefe]

I've used 3711 quite a bit: Saisons, Biere de Garde, IPAs, even a Braggot. I like how it attenuates well and leaves dry beer with a nice mouthfeel. I kind of used it as a house strain for half a year of brewing. It is also highly alcohol tolerant (I got over 14% with a mead not listed below).
I've gotten anywhere from 84% attenuation to 97% (half the sugars were honey in the braggot), average 88%. The only one that didn't reach 88% was fermented relatively cold (62-63F), all the other in the 68-72F range. It didn't floculate very well until I started cold conditioning.

OG FG ABV ATT Note
1.051 1.008 5.70% 84% Extract
1.089 1.011 10.20% 88% Partial Mash
1.06 1.007 6.90% 88% Partial Mash
1.06 1.007 6.90% 88% All Grain
1.06 1.004 7.30% 93% All Grain
1.048 1.003 5.90% 94% Extract + Sugar
1.142 1.004 13.40% 97% Half Honey Half extract

 

[Leviathan]

How does 3711 compare to WLP566?

 

[unionrdr]

I just ordered NB's Petite Saison De'Ete kit with the 3711 yeast. Being low flocculation,would Whirlfloc do the job with it? I liked the single tabs I got in the two Morebeer kits that I also ordered a bottle of them. I know they're for proteins & such. But they work so well I figured it can't hurt to try.

 

[40watt]

Whirlfloc is for precipitating out proteins and also starches...I think.

To drop a yeast that doesn't want to floc, you can use gelatin or give it some time in cold storage.

 

[drives_a_bike]

Was shooting for a tank 7 like saison, just not as strong. I was hoping for around 6.5 to 6.8, but noooooo, not with this yeast! It's a monster!! Fermented from 1.060 to 1.000. Now I have a 7.9% saison...oh well, it's not like i won't drink it all...maybe just not as fast.

 

[theQ]

One of my favorite yeast. Makes strong and flavorful beers. I love it.

 

[Coff]

I just ordered NB's Petite Saison De'Ete kit with the 3711 yeast. Being low flocculation,would Whirlfloc do the job with it? I liked the single tabs I got in the two Morebeer kits that I also ordered a bottle of them. I know they're for proteins & such. But they work so well I figured it can't hurt to try.

Dont worry about a Saison clearing up. It should have a little haze to it.

 

[signpost]

I brewed up a giant (OG 1.091) Saison about a week ago and just pitched a single smack pack of 3711. It was only a 4 gallon batch, but yeah I know that is still underpitching.

The airlock was still active within a few hours and it's been bubbling steadily. It has slowed down a bit now (about 9 days in). From what I've read, it looks like my temps have been just fine for it at around 68°F or so. I'm just wondering if under-pitching as much as I did will effect it too much. It was somewhat on purpose, because I generally like to under-pitch Belgian and other yeast-dominated styles. But I've never used this yeast before, so I don't know if this will need some extra time to clean up or if it should be good to go once it is fully attenuated.

 

[drives_a_bike]

I washed the yeast from my saison I currently have on tap. Some friends of mine are getting married soon and another friend of ours and I are brewing up a couple beers for their reception. He's doing a wheat beer and I'm doing a ginger saison.

So, I brewed mine today...pitched the yeast starter at 3pm, and this beast is bubbling away already and it's only 8. I'm starting to wonder why I even used the yeast nutrient with this yeast. It fermented my last 1.060 saison down to 1.000 with no nutrient...

 

[BlueHouseBrewhaus]

I love 3711. Recently did a Belgian holiday ale with orange peel and coriander and decided to use the 3711 because I wanted the spice profile. It took it from 1.078 to 1.008 in a week and then continued to ever so slowly drop even more. Ended up at 1.004 after 3 weeks - 9.7% ABV! I started at 66F for 2 days then ramped up to 76F over 4 days then back to 66F after 8 days. No fusels, just a nice smooth warmth. And that is after only a month in the bottle. This should be very smooth by the holidays.

 

[lefort3]

3711 is one of my favorites. I decided to torture myself by splitting a 10 gallon batch: one pitched with 3711 and the other with 3724. I think I have atleast 3 weeks for the latter to finish while the former hit 1.01 in 4 days.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew while drinking a brew as I brew.

 

[sweetcell]

3711 is one of my favorites. I decided to torture myself by splitting a 10 gallon batch: one pitched with 3711 and the other with 3724. I think I have atleast 3 weeks for the latter to finish while the former hit 1.01 in 4 days.

my standard approach to saisons these days is to start with 3724, give it ~two weeks with heat ramping, them finish it off with 3711. you have a 3711 cake ready to go. once your 3711 batch is done, rack the 3724 batch on top of it. boom.

 

[lefort3]

Thx. I like that idea. I don't do a secondary. I keg after about 3-4 weeks in the primary. I'm thinking I can get some from the bottom and transfer it. Both are at 8 days. The 3724 is doing its job, but so slowly impatience may finally get the best of me. Especially with your idea. I can also do a small starter which was my plan if this isn't getting closer when I check again this week.



Sent from my iPad using Home Brew while drinking a brew as I brew.

 

[tgmartin000]

I'm wondering what temps are ok with this yeast? Every time I've used it in the high 60s, and it comes out too clean. Will higher temps accentuate the phenols and a spiciness?