Wyeast 1968 London ESB / Yeast Generations

[boicutt]

Hey guys!

This week will be my first time using liquid yeast as well as making a starter! Stoked about it! Being that liquid yeast is more expensive, I thought it would also be a good idea to start washing/harvesting some of my yeast! After some research, it looks like I picked quite the yeast to try and start washing! If any of you have tips on washing/harvesting this yeast let me know! I have seen people having better success with harvesting the krausen, but it's kind of hard in a glass carboy (what I'll be using).

I have read other people like to make larger starters and split it instead of harvesting from the fermentor. This brought up a question about generations in my mind. Not sure what is considered a generation. Obviously if I brew, take that yeast cake and use it for another batch directly, that's second generation and so on...

What I was wondering is let says this:
Pour yeast into starter. Split into two. Now you have jar 1 and jar 2. Brew with Jar 1, you still have the first generation (I believe after the starter it's still "1st generation").

Now time for another batch. Take jar 2, make a larger starter/step starter, split into another jar. So now you have jar 2 that you have stepped up from the first split and jar 3 that came from jar 2. Would this still be considered 1st generation? How long can you keep doing this type of starter without mutation?

Thanks a bunch!

 

[boicutt]

I'd love to get anyone's opinion, need to make my starter on thursday to brew for the weekend! <3 Cheers!

 

[flars]

Making an extra large starter, in one or two steps, is a great way to always have fresh yeast. When I do this, the yeast from the starter, which has not been used to brew a beer, is label "new" yeast.
Yeast that has that has been used to brew a beer, and then harvested, is labeled "generation 1". When Gen 1 yeast is used to brew a beer, and then harvested, is labeled Gen 2. The generation number matches the number of times the yeast has been used to brew a beer.
The saved yeast from a starter is always labeled new yeast because it has not undergone the stresses of fermenting a beer.

 

[boicutt]

Thanks flars! How far have you stretched yeast harvested straight from starter to starter before you've had issues with taste/mutation? Considering the difficulty of harvesting this yeast straight from the fermentor I plan to just always multiply my starters to keep a home culture.

 

[dyqik]

I've taken WLP002 (same strain as 1968 ) to 5 generations without problem, in repeats of my best bitter. I switched from washing to just harvesting the yeast cake directly after a couple of generations. In both cases I made a correct sized starter from the saved yeast for each brew. I think I lost some attenuation by the last generation, but I'm not sure.

Nowadays I just make a starter that is 400ml to big, and save the extra in a sterile mason jar for the next starter. I've also switched to WLP007 as my English/East Coast PA yeast, with variations in temperature profile for each style.

 

[boicutt]

Thanks dyqik! That's what I'd like to do. Start with the yeast pack, make double the starter I need and split it into two.

When you decide to split your starter, do you decant and split or shake it up and then split it in two, and then decant?

 

[flars]

Thanks flars! How far have you stretched yeast harvested straight from starter to starter before you've had issues with taste/mutation? Considering the difficulty of harvesting this yeast straight from the fermentor I plan to just always multiply my starters to keep a home culture.

I've only done the double size starter, and save half for the next starter, once. the saved half is still in the frig. I can see doing this over and over with no problems because the saved yeast has never been stressed by brewing a beer.

I have an IPA fermenting right now with generation 5, harvested WY 1056. I'm not noticing any problems with this method either.

 

[boicutt]

I've only done the double size starter, and save half for the next starter, once. the saved half is still in the frig. I can see doing this over and over with no problems because the saved yeast has never been stressed by brewing a beer.

I have an IPA fermenting right now with generation 5, harvested WY 1056. I'm not noticing any problems with this method either.

Awesome! Thanks for the input! I'll try this! Hopefully I don't mess up my first starter/split, haha!

 

[dyqik]

Thanks dyqik! That's what I'd like to do. Start with the yeast pack, make double the starter I need and split it into two.

When you decide to split your starter, do you decant and split or shake it up and then split it in two, and then decant?

Since I've mostly been doing this in medium gravity beers with enough flavor to overcome anything from the starter, I leave it on the stir plate until the last moment before I pitch, then poured off the portion to keep before pitching the rest. If it was an enormous lager starter, I'd cold crash and decant first, but for ales I just direct pitch the starter.

 

[boicutt]

Since I've mostly been doing this in medium gravity beers with enough flavor to overcome anything from the starter, I leave it on the stir plate until the last moment before I pitch, then poured off the portion to keep before pitching the rest. If it was an enormous lager starter, I'd cold crash and decant first, but for ales I just direct pitch the starter.

Thanks for the tip! My question wasn't clear, I'm sorry!

I meant for the extra 400ml that you split from your starter to save it for later. Was just curious how you split it!

 

[dyqik]

I just pour enough of the well mixed up starter liquid out of the starter flask to fill a pint mason jar just before I pitch the rest in the wort. Starter volume only needs to be accurate to about ±100ml, so that's accurate enough.

 

[jleiii]

My last couple brews I decanted from the 2L starter, after letting it settle over night, into 2 sanitized qt mason jars, and cold crash. Depending on how frequently I'm brewing I may save a few like this. I then decant as much liquid as I can, add in enough sterilized water (I make a few 1/2 pint jars at a time) to get the yeast into suspension, then dump into 35ml soda bottle blanks. I generally get about 1/4 full of yeast once it settles. I then do a step starter from these, and repeat.
Others on related posts seem to consider each starter a new generation.

I'm working toward a few 'house' yeasts, and with those I'll make a starter, split the whole thing into 4, save three, and step up the 4th for use. Then when I get to the last one, make another 4 and repeat. This gives more uses with fewer generations. I will be freezing these as well, but need to get the freezer part figured out before I start this.