Worried about my fermentation

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Carrollyn

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I’ve got a Tank 7 clone (5 gallons) in the fermenter, just past 2 weeks. Everything went perfectly, but I’m concerned that the gravity isn’t falling as quickly as I’d thought it should. I’ve made several of these before, but extract. The other difference was the yeast; I’d used Belle Saison, and it had finished up by 14 days. This time I used Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison, with a 1.5 liter starter. My OG was 1.070, and I’m looking for 1.009 for FG. I started at 68° f and ramped up to 71° f. At one week it was 1.046, and now, at two weeks, it’s at 1.042. It looks good, smells good, tastes good, and there is a small amount of white foam and some light effervescent in the sample. Would you ramp up the temp more? To what? Is this just a slow yeast? Or is it going to need some help? I’d appreciate either reassurance or suggestions. (I did notice that the starter was not a monster, similar to other Belgians I’ve started)
 

DuncB

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According to Wyeast blurb about your yeast.

" This strain is notorious for a rapid and vigorous start to fermentation, only to stick around 1.035 S.G. Fermentation will finish, given time and warm temperatures. Warm fermentation temperatures, at least 90 °F (32 °C), or the use of a secondary strain can accelerate attenuation. "

So I'd heat it up !!
 
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Carrollyn

Carrollyn

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And where did it wind up?
I cranked it up to 90 and it has slowly got back into turning sugars into beer. March 21 it had been hanging at 1.042 for too long. I’ve been checking it about every three days since then and have seen it inch downward. Presently it is at 1.028. It still tastes nice, but pretty hot! (Temp, not alcohol, ha ha)
If it stalls before I’m happy with the FG, I’ve got some T58 I might pitch to finish it up. How does that sound?
 

DuncB

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I'm not sure about that, if it's still going in the right direction patience might be the best method, ? more nutrient a benefit no idea. Could reach out to Wyeast and ask their advice.
 
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Carrollyn

Carrollyn

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this yeast is nuts! I let it go this time for 11 days and then checked it again, all the while in a 90° fermentation chamber. It is pretty consistently going down .004 points every 4 or 5 days. And lo and behold, it is keeping that pace. Went down from 1.024 to 1.016 in that time. So it's not stalled. Still tastes fine. It is quite hazy, I'm guessing because the yeast is still swimming around, lazily doing its thing. If it keeps up at this rate, then I might hope to see 1.009 in a little over a week?
BTW, thanks for checking in on me. I will have to rename this beast when I finally am able to bottle it.
 

CascadesBrewer

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Many years ago I made a Saison with the Dupont strain (not sure if I used White Labs or Wyeast). I hit that similar stall and moved it to a warm closet to finish up. I did not have fermentation temp control at the time.

I have my second batch in the fermenter with the Dupont strain (WLP565). Some people say the theory popularized by Drew Beechum about this stain being very sensitive to back pressure or CO2 is bunk. I fermented them both "open" (a piece of foil over the stopper in place of an airlock) and they both ripped right through the beer in a week or so. The second batch is still in the fermenter and was brewed 8 days ago.

My temp strategy has been to pitch the yeast at 68F. I then let the beers free rise in my fermentation chamber then hold them at 78F. The first batch was a 2.5 gal one and only got itself up to 75F. The second one was a 5 gal batch and got itself up to 82F.

As an aside, I always cringe when I see simple advice like "let it free rise." There is a massive difference in what will happen with a small batch sitting in a 62F basement vs a large batch sitting in a 74F room (or in my case, in a closed chest freezer).

Info from Drew: A Guide to Saisons and Saison Yeasts | Maltose Falcons
 
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Carrollyn

Carrollyn

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I've made about a dozen saisons with T-58 and Belle Saison. Pitch, cover, wait a few days, then Presto, its all done. I decided to try a yeast possibly closer to Boulevard's strain, and with more (as I read) complexity. But I was complacent and didn't read up on any of its special characteristics.
I'll have to experiment with the "back pressure" idea.
 
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CascadesBrewer

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T-58 huh? I am wanting to brew more with dry yeast this year. I have Belle Saison on my list to try as well as BE-134 (which seems to be related to WLP590 - French Saison). I might have to add T-58 to my list for a Saison.

I made a couple Saisons with Omega Saisonstein's Monster OYL-500. It seems pretty easy to work with and makes a good Saison.
 
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Carrollyn

Carrollyn

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Update on my saison. Today I tested the gravity and it was at 1.008 @ 90°. (1.011 adjusted for temperature)
I made this on 3/5/21, with a starting gravity of 1.070. The final gravity was to be 1.009. I am calling it done and am taking it out of the infernal chamber, I mean, fermentation chamber, and I'll set it aside in the "cool room," which stays between 65 and 72°, for about a month. The recipe calls for half an ounce of Amarillo dry hops for 4 days. So I'll do that when I'm ready to bottle.
I think it will really taste nice when it's all done. Next time, I'll get on to those high temps sooner, and maybe make it in the middle of a Redding summer.
It has been an experience. Thanks for the help and reassurance.
 

thefigure5

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Update on my saison. Today I tested the gravity and it was at 1.008 @ 90°. (1.011 adjusted for temperature)
I made this on 3/5/21, with a starting gravity of 1.070. The final gravity was to be 1.009. I am calling it done and am taking it out of the infernal chamber, I mean, fermentation chamber, and I'll set it aside in the "cool room," which stays between 65 and 72°, for about a month. The recipe calls for half an ounce of Amarillo dry hops for 4 days. So I'll do that when I'm ready to bottle.
I think it will really taste nice when it's all done. Next time, I'll get on to those high temps sooner, and maybe make it in the middle of a Redding summer.
It has been an experience. Thanks for the help and reassurance.
I started my Wyeast 3724 Story on 4/7/21, and it has been at 90°F for the last two weeks. I thought I might be able to bottle today. OG was 1.047, lower than the expected 1.058. The current SG is 1.020. I'll wait a week and see how it's doing, but it may take more like a month, judging from your experience.

Given the high temperature of fermentation, I was thinking something similar, maybe 85°F after bottling to get it to carbonate. Does anyone have a suggestion about temperature after bottling a Wyeast 3724 Saison?
 
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Carrollyn

Carrollyn

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Dang. I forgot about that part of the game. Right, how can I possibly get this ale carbonated in the bottle in less than a month in the infernal chamber? Maybe I should find out how to pitch a bit of some other yeast at that time for carbonating.
 

thefigure5

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Dang. I forgot about that part of the game. Right, how can I possibly get this ale carbonated in the bottle in less than a month in the infernal chamber? Maybe I should find out how to pitch a bit of some other yeast at that time for carbonating.
Lallemand CBC-1 looks like a good yeast that's made for cask- and bottle conditioning and at cool temperatures. Two grams (1/2 tsp.) for a 5-gallon batch is recommended. Re-hydrating is recommended. When I did something like this, the local brew store guy recommended gently stirring in the bottling bucket after every few bottles, to make sure the yeast stays in suspension.

If my saison ever finishes, I might try to bottle-condition without adding more yeast, keeping it warm, but less than 90°F.
 
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Carrollyn

Carrollyn

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Wellll.... I called it done, and dry hopped with the .5 oz of Amarillo a few days ago. Then I remembered that I was going to get some of the previously mentioned yeast to help bottle condition it. If I order today, that is still several days longer than I usually leave the dry hops in, by the time I Bottle. I have to say, the idea of just kegging it is sounding attractive. If it just blows my socks off, I’d make it again, and plan for all these obstacles.
 

thefigure5

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I left my Saison at 90°F for over 10 weeks and bottled a little over two weeks ago. In the bottles, they are still at or near 90°F. I've tried one or two bottles, and they are lightly carbonated now. I plan to leave them for about a week more and call it done, then chill them down to 70°F or below. I'm not sure it is going to be all that good, but will reserve judgement.

Since I harvested some of the yeast, I am thinking to make a starter from some of that, and make another batch with some adjustments and using the starter and a packet of BE-134 dry yeast to ferment, keeping the temperature in the good range for the BE-134.
 
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Carrollyn

Carrollyn

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If I bottle and the carbonation is weak or barely there, I have ruined the batch. About a year ago I made a scotch ale, and then a smoked stout. I'd had a previous batch that was almost too carbed, so I backed off a little from the recommendations. The stout was slightly undercarbed, disappointing but drinkable. The scotch ale was barely carbed and I couldn't drink it. I would probably cry if I couldn't get the carbonation right on this bucket 'o beer.
 

thefigure5

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With the CBC-1 you should be able to get it to carbonate. Let us know. In my case, with the Wyeast 3724 being so slow, it may take a while to carb up.
 

duffy5018

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My method with 3724/565:
Put the wort into a glass carboy (only time I use glass anymore unless bulk aging) and oxygenate. Put the carboy in a water bath with a cheap aquarium heater and cheap submersible pump. Pitch at 68-70°F. 48hrs later, start the pump to circulate the water and bump it up 2-4° with the heater, then another bump every 12 hours til your sitting around 80-84 (2 to 3 days later). Let it sit til its done. Usually takes me around 10 days to hit terminal gravity. I've never had a truly stuck firm with these yeasts, just a couple that slowed down a lot at the end. For an airlock I just use a typical 3 piece airlock with no liquid in it. Seems like a pretty good way to guarantee no nasties navigate in and no pressure builds.

For bottle carbing... Can't help you. I keg everything and bottle from the keg if needed. But I wouldn't worry about a dry hop lasting a bit longer than 4 days. Especially if your beer is down around 68°. I've done 7 day dry hops, and I dry hop in a keg frequently. Those hops sit in the beer for 4 weeks or more with no ill effects.
 
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Carrollyn

Carrollyn

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Thanks for the insights. I’ll be revisiting this thread for these in the future.
 
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Carrollyn

Carrollyn

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I know you are all waiting with bated breath for the end results...
I kegged it. (Does anyone else have continual problems with autocorrect trying to make “kegged” into “legged”?) I decided to not tap it into the beverator right now, but to slip a picnic tap onto it when I wanted to pull some off. That will help it not get drunk up or fast, and it will keep me from having to clean lines I only used once or twice. I’ve had it on 15psi for about a day and a half, and when it’s “just right,” I’ll drop it down. It still needs another day or so to dissolve more co2 into it, but I have a good idea of where it will go. I think pretty marvelous.
To my surprise, the gravity fell all the way down to 1.003, below my target of 1.009. (ABV 8.8) I guess that month of just sitting there at about 65-70 in my temp controlled room finished it out. It was at 1.008 when I dropped the heat and stashed it.
It has a gorgeous creamy white long-lasting head. Pale straw, and hazy (at this point anyway) First impression is pineapples. Followed by stone fruit. Has a peppery finish. I think the half-ounce Amarillo dry hops didn’t interfere with the finished product, but rather just layered itself right in. No off-flavors that I can discern.
I never would have thought that fermenting a beer at 90 degrees f for so long would have created something so clean. I’ll see how things progress with flavor as it matures, but I am not regretting not bottling it, especially with the questions on how to best carb it. (It’s a little paler than the image)
BFF9DA6B-7D4A-43BD-8274-5E4D05342E91.jpeg
 
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