WLP800 lager at 1.030 after 4 weeks?!

[winvarin]

It seems as if temperature and rousing may have been the trick. I had moved the beer to 56F and rocked the carboy a few times to rouse the yeast yesterday before leaving for work. I came home last night to the temp still reading 56F on the carboy, but the beer was noticeably more cloudy again, and about a 2 inch krausen had formed.

I turned the temp back down to 54F. As of this morning, the krausen and airlock activity are still present, the beer is still cloudy and the temp is still at 54F. It looks like the small warm up and rousing woke everybody up and made them realize that there was still some food on the table.

 

[Veritas]

A quick update for those who might be curious: It is now 7 weeks since brewing this pilsner. Carboy #1 is down from 1.026 to 1.024 (.002 in a week) and Carboy #2 is down from 1.019 to 1.017 (down .002) Carboy #1 sample tastes great but does have a bit of sweetness to it (although less than in the past) and Carboy #2 sample is just awesome. It's close enough to terminal that it has that great "champagne bubble" light yellow thing going on, with lots of saaz character. It's a winner.

I decided to bump up my temp to 60 for a D-rest (although it doesn't need it) to see if it'll clean up and maybe drop a few more points. I'm going then keg the batches separately, calling on a pilsner and the other a "bohemian style lager." Good beer either way.

 

[winvarin]

Something occurred to me about you situation yesterday. I was listening to an old JZ podcast about a completely different style from what we're talking about here, but the logic follows.

In the podcast, the guy who'd made the beer they were tasting made one big starter for both carboys, then did the best job he could to shake up and split the starter evenly between the 2 "by eye". There was a noticeable difference in the fermentation profile between the 2. Jamil told him that when trying to split by hand, the slightest mistake (not mixing well enough, over or under pouring), could result in a differential of up to 25% in the pitching rate between the 2.

Even under the best of circumstances Jamil said, you're going to have a difference of about 10% if you decant down to just enough liquid to get the yeast back into suspension then try to split it. He recommended adding a small amount of your fresh wort, equal amounts from both fermenters, and placing it into your decanted starter. Swirl that back into solution and pitch. The theory is that with the starter diluted, you run a better chance of getting similar pitching volumes in the 2 carboys.

How did you split your yeast between these 2?

 

[Veritas]

How did you split your yeast between these 2?

Great question and excellent point! I did make my starter on a stir plate in a huge 5000 ml flask, then decanted, slurries back into suspension, and used the measurements on the flask to split it as evenly as possible. That's interesting that it might account for such a difference. I'll have to try your suggested method next time

By the way, bumping up my fermentation to 60 has increased the activity in both carboys. I'll check it next weekend and post the results.

 

[winvarin]

Update on my WLP800. Quick recap. I have 10 gallons going. 5 gallons was fermented with Saflager 34/70. The other 5 I used a starter of WLP800 (2 vials in a 1.6L starter). At one week from pitching, the dried yeast had fermented down to 1.016. The WLP800 was still at 1.029 (starting gravity 1.055). Both beers were pitched and fermented at 52-54F.

When I had checked the gravity at week one, I roused the WLP800 and got a few days of relatively vigorous ferment out of it again. Last Wednesday (day 18 from pitch), I brought the temp on the fermenting fridge up to 64F. Neither beer showed signs of diacetyl. But I was hoping the warmer temp would help the 800 finish up and help both beers just in case there were any byproducts I was missing that need to be cleaned up.

I pulled hydrometer samples and tasted both last night (day 22 from pitch). The dry yeast beer is sitting at 1.012 (my expected target). It has a nice graininess and the hops are just barely perceptable. Very clean. I can already see signs of where this one will end up after a few weeks lagering in the keg.

The WLP800 is at around 1.016-17. It is noticeably sweeter than the beer that's already reached terminal gravity, but not as sweet as it was 2 weeks ago. This one is also very clean, despite the wort sweetness I still get from it. I think it will get there. It's just taking its time. I roused it again last night and when I checked on it before work this morning, it had about an inch of krausen and was bubbling away again. I think this yeast just keeps trying to go to sleep on me. I have it still sitting at 64 and plan on giving it a swirl once or twice a day until this weekend, to keep the yeast in suspension. If it hits 1.012 and the other beer stays there, I will start chilling them down over the week and will likely keg over mother's day weekend.

I plan to go straight from the primary to keg. Then cold crash them in the keg for a week or so, draw off any yeast that drops, then keep them cold for another 6-8 weeks for lagering.

 

[winvarin]

Lagers are a labor of love... that's for sure.

I'm beginning to see what you mean. I have some grain and hops for a bitter that are tamping their feet impatiently, looking at the lagers as they eat up fermenter space on their own sweet time.

I swear last night I heard the Fuggles say, "Oi. Hurry up in there. If 'ed brewed us first 'ed be drinking us by now."

 

[Veritas]

A quick update for those who might be curious: It is now 7 weeks since brewing this pilsner. Carboy #1 is down from 1.026 to 1.024 (.002 in a week) and Carboy #2 is down from 1.019 to 1.017 (down .002) Carboy #1 sample tastes great but does have a bit of sweetness to it (although less than in the past) and Carboy #2 sample is just awesome. It's close enough to terminal that it has that great "champagne bubble" light yellow thing going on, with lots of saaz character. It's a winner.

I decided to bump up my temp to 60 for a D-rest (although it doesn't need it) to see if it'll clean up and maybe drop a few more points. I'm going then keg the batches separately, calling on a pilsner and the other a "bohemian style lager." Good beer either way.

So here we are 11 days later, a full 8 weeks and three days since brew day (8 weeks and 2 days since pitching the yeast) having bumped up to 60 for a few days, then up to 64 for the past week. And.... Carboy #1 has dropped from 1.024 down to 1.012 and Carboy #2 is down from 1.017 to 1.011!!!! The beer has cleared, and there is STILL a bit of fermentation activity, no diacetyl at all (due to low temps during initial fermentation) and the taste is amazing... crisp, dry, saazy goodness. I'm going to exercise extreme patience and wait until the weekend to crash this (in the primary) then keg... and them lager.... (So, I wonder if a 4 day lager would suffice? ) The lagering will be worth it.

So I think the moral of this story is to either: 1. Use a monster starter (even more then suggested) to compensate for the cooler fermentation, plus a TON of O2, or 2. Brew as usual and plan on bumping up the temp once it stalls. I'll try upping the yeast next time.

 

[winvarin]

So I think the moral of this story is to either: 1. Use a monster starter (even more then suggested) to compensate for the cooler fermentation, plus a TON of O2, or 2. Brew as usual and plan on bumping up the temp once it stalls. I'll try upping the yeast next time.

I agree with you on both counts. I gave each carboy 60 sec of O2. May up that to 90 next time. I will probably bump my starter volume by 50% as well. I have mine at 64 right now and am hoping I can squeeze out those last 5 points.

 

[winvarin]

Checked mine again on Saturday 5/4 just shy of 1 month in the primary and on day 9 of my high temp rest. I'd set the fridge t 64, but a cold snap in the latter part of the week has my beers at 60 f in the lager fridge.

The WLP800 beer is down to 1.012, my initial target. With the warmer temp, the second half of this batch (that got saflager 34/70) is at 1.010. I'm going to leave them at this temp until Tuesday night 5/7, the begin coming down a couple of degrees each day until I get into the 40s. Since I spent so much time jacking with the yeast, I intend to hit them both with gelatin so that I can get as clean a transfer as I can when going into the keg for lagering.