WLP644 -Brett B Trois

[TheHairyHop]

Under pitching and no oxygenation got me the fruit flavors. It wasn't explosive as some people have reported, but it was there

 

[Wingston75]

Under pitching and no oxygenation got me the fruit flavors. It wasn't explosive as some people have reported, but it was there

hmm, thanks.

The beer I'm brewing is 8.5% - I'm wondering whether under-pitching with 1 vial would give it enough oomph to ferment that all the way up, and whether it'd be safer pitching two - what do you reckon?

 

[crusader1612]

hmm, thanks.

The beer I'm brewing is 8.5% - I'm wondering whether under-pitching with 1 vial would give it enough oomph to ferment that all the way up, and whether it'd be safer pitching two - what do you reckon?

Definitely make a starter.
You'll end up with stressed yeast flavours.

 

[Bosh]

I'm getting some contradictory information on fermentation temp on this strain. A lot of people on this thread say to ferment at standard ale temps, other in the mid-70's while the manufacturer says up to 85 is fine. Can this yeast really take temps of up to 85? I know saison yeasts are fine at that temp (and higher even, been there done that, made decent beer) so I'm not ruling it out.

Don't have a good temp control system so I brewed saisons for months last year and got pretty sick of them and would like to try something else, hopefully this yeast...

 

[BrewinHooligan]

I'm getting some contradictory information on fermentation temp on this strain. A lot of people on this thread say to ferment at standard ale temps, other in the mid-70's while the manufacturer says up to 85 is fine. Can this yeast really take temps of up to 85? I know saison yeasts are fine at that temp (and higher even, been there done that, made decent beer) so I'm not ruling it out.

Don't have a good temp control system so I brewed saisons for months last year and got pretty sick of them and would like to try something else, hopefully this yeast...

I fermented with this strain a few times at 80f ambient with no temp control so would assume that it got at least to 85f during peak fermentation. One of the best ipas I've ever made.

 

[Bosh]

I fermented with this strain a few times at 80f ambient with no temp control so would assume that it got at least to 85f during peak fermentation. One of the best ipas I've ever made.

Thanks, made a big two step starter so I could use this yeast a few times without buying more. Got a pale ale brewing away with this right now at room temperature. Decanted yeast starter liquid tastes totally clean as does a hydrometer sample of the pale ale.

Weird, expected more flavors. Not disappointed at all, hydrometer sample tastes great and what I wanted the most from this yeast is for it to be a clean high temperature yeast (was still pretty hot in mid September when I pitched this and just let it sit at room temp) and its delivered this in spades.

Will certainly brew this all summer next year. Am considering using it for an Arrogant Bastard clone and maybe mixing in some with some wit yeast to get somewhat better attenuation.

 

[sven945]

Wow, so I've just read all 103 pages of this thread in the past few days.

I've got a Galaxy single hop on the go with this, after getting a vial in an out of date lucky dip selection. I made a 1l starter (for a 12l batch), mashed at 68°C and got an OG of 1069. After ten days it was 1024, and it was down to 1020 after another week. I've had no temperature control and it's been about 21° all the time, give or take. I've hopefully got a heating belt and Inkbird coming today so I'll hopefully be able to warm it up to try and kick it along towards a complete fermentation. I might try racking to secondary this weekend for dry hopping, hopefully to give it a kick up the backside with some movement.

It's smelling so good, even before dry hopping. It's a little more bitter than I expected, but it's not unpleasant at all.

 

[sven945]

I've had it warmed up to 25°C for four days and it's only come down 1 point. I've stirred it up today and increased it to 26° so hopefully that'll kick it back into life.

 

[weiht]

So, anyone has bottles that are 3-6 mths old? Does it develop any wild farmouse like character, given that its still a wild yeast.

I've heard guys say it develops funk after 6 mths, and the bright esters take a back seat.

 

[TheHairyHop]

I don't have anything that I left sitting around for that long, but since it's a sacch, I think it's relatively safe to say that it won't do much by just sitting in the bottle

 

[hopbrad]

what size starter are people making? I just recieved a vial and was shocked at the tiny amount in the vial, it says i can pitch into 5 gallons.

 

[crusader1612]

what size starter are people making? I just recieved a vial and was shocked at the tiny amount in the vial, it says i can pitch into 5 gallons.

I'd suggest a lager sized starter.

 

[sven945]

Mine was past its sell by date, and I made a 1 litre starter for about 11 litres (2 gallons ish). But it's been really slow so perhaps I should have made a larger one.

 

[sven945]

So I took a reading after four days at 26° and it's come back to life. Down to 1015 now, so I've dry hopped. I mashed high so I think it's nearly there, but we'll see.

 

[sweetcell]

what size starter are people making? I just recieved a vial and was shocked at the tiny amount in the vial

it is indeed a very small amount, i believe it's somewhere in the 2-3 billion range.

not only do you need a starter, but you need to step it up. a single step isn't going to give you enough growth. i would do a first small step, like 250ml, then step that up again.

but i don't have experience growing up this yeast. i've repitched it each time, getting my initial large pitch from another homebrewer.

a number of people have complained that 644 doesn't attenuate well. i wonder how many of them are underpitching.

it says i can pitch into 5 gallons.

yeah, that's their standard line. i suspect they meant that as a secondary yeast, back when they thought/pretended to think it was a brett.

 

[crusader1612]

Thoughts on this?
WLP002/WLP644 as a co-pitch / blend in primary.
I'm trying to figure out how much of a part the 644 would play in this? given I would probably begin by pitching into a low gravity beer to build up a big enough cake.

something similar to the Funktown yeast by Yeast bay.

Here were the options I'm looking at-
1/ Co-pitch WLP002/WLP644 as is in a 1.048 beer
2/ Co-pitch WLP002 / 500ml start of WLP644 into 1.048 beer
3/ Co-pitch 500ml starter WLP002 / 2 litre starter of WLP644 in to 1.052 beer ( slightly bigger blonde ale.

I'm leaning towards 2 or 3 at this stage.

 

[jfrank85]

Thoughts on this?
WLP002/WLP644 as a co-pitch / blend in primary.
I'm trying to figure out how much of a part the 644 would play in this? given I would probably begin by pitching into a low gravity beer to build up a big enough cake.

something similar to the Funktown yeast by Yeast bay.

Here were the options I'm looking at-
1/ Co-pitch WLP002/WLP644 as is in a 1.048 beer
2/ Co-pitch WLP002 / 500ml start of WLP644 into 1.048 beer
3/ Co-pitch 500ml starter WLP002 / 2 litre starter of WLP644 in to 1.052 beer ( slightly bigger blonde ale.

I'm leaning towards 2 or 3 at this stage.

Omega and Imperial yeasts both have a blend like this.

 

[crusader1612]

Omega and Imperial yeasts both have a blend like this.

In New Zealand - I only have accesto Whitelabs or at a pinch WYeast....

no one brings in Yeast Bay Omega Imperial or giga.

 

[hopbrad]

it is indeed a very small amount, i believe it's somewhere in the 2-3 billion range.

not only do you need a starter, but you need to step it up. a single step isn't going to give you enough growth. i would do a first small step, like 250ml, then step that up again.

but i don't have experience growing up this yeast. i've repitched it each time, getting my initial large pitch from another homebrewer.

a number of people have complained that 644 doesn't attenuate well. i wonder how many of them are underpitching.


yeah, that's their standard line. i suspect they meant that as a secondary yeast, back when they thought/pretended to think it was a brett.

thats pretty annoying. my latest brew day left some weak final runnings. i collected 2 gallons of 1.010 wort. its currently frozen and plan to use some of this to start building up a starter

I emailed them 4 days ago and they never responded. I sent a follow up email this evening

 

[sweetcell]

I emailed them 4 days ago and they never responded. I sent a follow up email this evening

you emailed who, about what?

if you emailed white labs, asking them to confirm cell counts, you might not get a response. historically they haven't been particularly forthcoming about the cell counts of their bugs.

 

[hopbrad]

you emailed who, about what?

if you emailed white labs, asking them to confirm cell counts, you might not get a response. historically they haven't been particularly forthcoming about the cell counts of their bugs.

I had emailed white labs about the cell count or advice on a starter as a sole pitch into 1.050-1.055 wort. not co-pitching with another strain.
That's pretty lame if they won't give out that information, how can I make the best beer possible without pitching properly? easy, use another company!

thankfully there is this awesome forum to turn to. :rockin:

 

[hopbrad]

White Labs Response

If it was packaged before Mar. 20th then it is 500 million per ml. If more recent (once it was discovered to be a sacch strain) then it is 2.5 billion per ml.

Thanks!

 

[sweetcell]

nice!

so how many ml are in a vial/purepitch pouch?

 

[hopbrad]

nice!

so how many ml are in a vial/purepitch pouch?

my 644 vial states 35ml and I also have a pure pitch pouch of another strain, which reads 40 ml.

 

[Calder]

White Labs Response

If it was packaged before Mar. 20th then it is 500 million per ml. If more recent (once it was discovered to be a sacch strain) then it is 2.5 billion per ml.

So the experts at White Labs didn't discover it was a sacc strain until March ..... I've known for a couple of years.

I understand what they have done; the small dosage is about right for adding Brett as secondary fermentation, but the larger dosage is for straight pitch as a primary to low OG worts. But to take 18 months to make the change after it has been confirmed to be sacc!!!!!

 

[joglelyonnais]

Hi everyone,
Is WLP644 able to metabolize dextrines or lactose ? As it is a sacc strain, it should not. Am I right ?

 

[Bosh]

WLP644 makes some pretty tasty cider, very fruity. Make some holiday cider with some cinnamon and quite a bit more sugar than WLP644 can handle, make a tasty dessert cider after I aged it a few months to get rid of the booziness.

 

[sweetcell]

Hi everyone,
Is WLP644 able to metabolize dextrines or lactose ? As it is a sacc strain, it should not. Am I right ?

based on the fact that some folks have trouble getting good attenuation outta 644, i feel pretty comfy saying that it doesn't ferment dextrines.

 

[Alain2]

This yeast doesn't produce acid, how can it be sour then?

 

[sweetcell]

This yeast doesn't produce acid, how can it be sour then?

Infection? Cross-contamination?