WLP644 -Brett B Trois

[jackwhite]

I am modeling the recipe from this source - http://sjworthogs.org/documents/Old British Beers.pdf.

So this is more of an curious experiment. I after reading up on this yeast strain I am beginning to wonder if this yeast may have been involved in old IPA's. This is a long term project and don't expect good results for MANY months. From what I have read the IPA turns out a bit cloying buy balanced by the bitterness and no doubt it will be bitter. I have also read that high hop rates add body to beer or atleast mouth feel which many offer an interesting counter to the high attenuation rate. Hops Direct has a very good deal on leaf BOADICEA so using large amounts won't be a great waste per se. I may yet scale the recipe for less finish volume to save on hops and decrease boil time. Right now my system will be maxed out and to get decent efficiency I will need to sparge a large volume (I think) so the recipe calls for a 5 hour boil. This is not something I have or will rush into. But this yeast strain looks very interesting.

This is also partly responsible for the inspiration - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=567460 (which ended up as a happy accident) as is Terry Foster's book on "Pale Ale" and "Farmhouse Ales" by Phil Markowski.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

Data points on attenuation with Brett Trois WLP644 from batches I've made:

1. Mashed at 153. Attenuation 89%.
2. Mashed at 152. Attenuation 90%.
3. Mashed at 153. Attenuation 85%.
4. Mashed at 153. Attenuation 81%.
5. Mashed at 154. Attenuation 84%.
6. Mashed at 153. Attenuation 86%.
7. Mashed at 155. Attenuation 83%.

I had thought that I'd mashed even higher with this strain, but I haven't. As you can see, they're all in the middle temps for mashing, but nothing lower than 81% for me. No difference in the way the starter was treated, always 3 steps up to 2 liters total over two weeks. All pitched in the mid to upper 60s and let rise to the upper 60s or very low 70s.

I haven't had one of these that I would say tasted too sweet or even close to too sweet.

I'd be curious to hear about how anyone has had this under attenuate and would be curious to see any data points.

 

[Agate]

Data points on attenuation with Brett Trois WLP644 from batches I've made:



1. Mashed at 153. Attenuation 89%.

2. Mashed at 152. Attenuation 90%.

3. Mashed at 153. Attenuation 85%.

4. Mashed at 153. Attenuation 81%.

5. Mashed at 154. Attenuation 84%.

6. Mashed at 153. Attenuation 86%.

7. Mashed at 155. Attenuation 83%.



I had thought that I'd mashed even higher with this strain, but I haven't. As you can see, they're all in the middle temps for mashing, but nothing lower than 81% for me. No difference in the way the starter was treated, always 3 steps up to 2 liters total over two weeks. All pitched in the mid to upper 60s and let rise to the upper 60s or very low 70s.



I haven't had one of these that I would say tasted too sweet or even close to too sweet.



I'd be curious to hear about how anyone has had this under attenuate and would be curious to see any data points.

My latest batch with it I mashed at 152°F and had 91% attenuation. Pretty much in line with your data.

 

[frettfreak]

ok guys, i messed up i think but looking for some opinions.

I actually just made a 1.062 pale with some citra, calypso, and orange zest. It was a last minute recipe for a competition in my brew club that i found out about WAY too late. i had bought a can of this yeast (imperial organics version that has 200b cells in the can called citrus) and decided to use it.

i usually make starters but had been reading about LOT of people using the Imperial organic's cans without starters with GREAT results so I thought i would give it a try. After finding out that IO's yeast was the WLP644 strain, i started do more looking around (info on "citrus" from IO was scarce cause they are a newer yeast provider) and think i might have really messed up.

Its only bee 12 hours since pitch, but there really is nothing going on yet. temp at 69

Looking for suggestions, morebeer is only a 45 minute drive and i can go get another can, make a starter and pitch that in a day or 2 or just wait. The only reason i am not on the just wait fence is cause i am trying to get this kegged and ready to drink in a month. If this was a normal sac yeast strain i know i could just wait another 12 hours and it would probably be rocking but i have never used this strain and know it is more like a brett than traditional sac strain.

suggestions??

EDIT:
Ok, so i am seeing some bubbles starting to form. I MAY just wait it out but was hoping for a quick turn around on this one. I did ramp the temp up to 71 to get things kicked off maybe a little faster as well

EDIT2: Ok, its actually got a nice layer of foam on the top. gonna let this run out and see how it does.

 

[505-Brewer]

ok guys, i messed up i think but looking for some opinions.

I actually just made a 1.062 pale with some citra, calypso, and orange zest. It was a last minute recipe for a competition in my brew club that i found out about WAY too late. i had bought a can of this yeast (imperial organics version that has 200b cells in the can called citrus) and decided to use it.

i usually make starters but had been reading about LOT of people using the Imperial organic's cans without starters with GREAT results so I thought i would give it a try. After finding out that IO's yeast was the WLP644 strain, i started do more looking around (info on "citrus" from IO was scarce cause they are a newer yeast provider) and think i might have really messed up.

Its only bee 12 hours since pitch, but there really is nothing going on yet. temp at 69

Looking for suggestions, morebeer is only a 45 minute drive and i can go get another can, make a starter and pitch that in a day or 2 or just wait. The only reason i am not on the just wait fence is cause i am trying to get this kegged and ready to drink in a month. If this was a normal sac yeast strain i know i could just wait another 12 hours and it would probably be rocking but i have never used this strain and know it is more like a brett than traditional sac strain.

suggestions??

EDIT:
Ok, so i am seeing some bubbles starting to form. I MAY just wait it out but was hoping for a quick turn around on this one. I did ramp the temp up to 71 to get things kicked off maybe a little faster as well

EDIT2: Ok, its actually got a nice layer of foam on the top. gonna let this run out and see how it does.

Is it a wlp644 equivalent in a pitch-able amount? That would be nice. Whats the cell count?

 

[Calder]

I actually just made a 1.062 pale with some citra, calypso, and orange zest. It was a last minute recipe for a competition in my brew club that i found out about WAY too late. i had bought a can of this yeast (imperial organics version that has 200b cells in the can called citrus) and decided to use it.

After finding out that IO's yeast was the WLP644 strain, i started do more looking around (info on "citrus" from IO was scarce cause they are a newer yeast provider) and think i might have really messed up.

Where did you get the information that it is the same as WLP644?

The reason it took a long time to start is because you pitched a small amount. 24 hours is OK.

 

[TheHairyHop]

if anything, underpitching is what you would want to do with this yeast

 

[frettfreak]

Is it a wlp644 equivalent in a pitch-able amount? That would be nice. Whats the cell count?

Kinda. Its supposedly 200b minimum per can. AND... you pitch it cold! Pretty awesome actually. I like them so far. Only complaint is the opening can on the lid breaks off and needs a better design, but its workable.

Where did you get the information that it is the same as WLP644?

The reason it took a long time to start is because you pitched a small amount. 24 hours is OK.

Morebeer's site gives it as the equivalent. Everything is cruising now. Nice foam and yeast chugging away.

if anything, underpitching is what you would want to do with this yeast

Really? Thats interesting. Why would you want to under pitch with this particular strain?

 

[TheHairyHop]

Really? Thats interesting. Why would you want to under pitch with this particular strain?

It can produce some interesting fruit fruit flavors when stressed

 

[frettfreak]

It can produce some interesting fruit fruit flavors when stressed

Stressed or not i just wanted to say that this beer came out AMAZING. I will be using this yeast a LOT more. love it.

 

[jfrank85]

It can produce some interesting fruit fruit flavors when stressed

Gonna have to try that, I pitched a bit heavy and got nothing special but dryness.

 

[TheHairyHop]

Stressed or not i just wanted to say that this beer came out AMAZING. I will be using this yeast a LOT more. love it.

glad to hear it!

 

[Calder]

I just bottled a tripel, and was not impressed with the sample I took. Maybe will improve with carbonation.

Also not as attenuative as I had expected. Only took a 1.060 down to 1.006. Mashed low and lots of sugar. A similar beer a few weeks earlier with another yeasr (not 3711), went down to 1.002.

I'm not complaining, I just expected it to go lower from everything I had heard.

If beer improves in the bottle, I'll amend this post.

 

[TheHairyHop]

it probably won't change in the bottle. going down to 1.006 is about right. it's just a sacch

 

[Calder]

I'm struggling what to use this yeast for. Maybe it is because I have several good Belgian style yeasts going, and I wasn't impressed with my first brew at a tripel with it. Drinking it now and maybe it is coming around - still very young.

Wondering how it would do in a clone of Arrogant Bastard. I know it will not be the same beer and will be fruitier, but would welcome any input as to whether this would be a disaster, or could potentially produce a decent beer.

90% pale Malt
10% CaraAroma
Chinook hops

I've asked this samequestion in the 'Can you Brew It recipe for Stone Arrogant Bastard' thread too.

 

[TheHairyHop]

I'm struggling what to use this yeast for. Maybe it is because I have several good Belgian style yeasts going, and I wasn't impressed with my first brew at a tripel with it. Drinking it now and maybe it is coming around - still very young.

Wondering how it would do in a clone of Arrogant Bastard. I know it will not be the same beer and will be fruitier, but would welcome any input as to whether this would be a disaster, or could potentially produce a decent beer.

90% pale Malt
10% CaraAroma
Chinook hops

I've asked this samequestion in the 'Can you Brew It recipe for Stone Arrogant Bastard' thread too.

I use it for IPAs that I want fruit flavor in. Honestly, I can't think of doing much more with it. Maybe you could primary with it and then add actual brett for bottle conditioning.

 

[505-Brewer]

Also good w saison yeast.

 

[505-Brewer]

How good is this yeast at chewing dextrines? Mashed my IPA a bit high (~153F). Fermenting with wy1056 and wy1272. Estimate they will finish around 1.016. Considering adding some enzymes or maybe a good pitch of wlp644. Anyone use it to attenuate a dextrinous wort?

 

[505-Brewer]

My latest batch with it I mashed at 152°F and had 91% attenuation. Pretty much in line with your data.

This probably answers my question if it can go in as a secondary with enough stamina!

 

[Jacinthebox]

I've been using wlp644 for a little while now...really like the pineapple flavor.
Just pitched into my Berliner last night and it's chugging away at 27C.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

I just bottled a tripel, and was not impressed with the sample I took. Maybe will improve with carbonation.

Also not as attenuative as I had expected. Only took a 1.060 down to 1.006. Mashed low and lots of sugar. A similar beer a few weeks earlier with another yeasr (not 3711), went down to 1.002.

I'm not complaining, I just expected it to go lower from everything I had heard.

If beer improves in the bottle, I'll amend this post.

Sounds in line with this yeast's behavior. Your beer attenuated 90%. Don't know that you can expect more out of this yeast.

From a post of mine, 2 pages ago in this thread, my attenuation across 7 beers brewed with this yeast:

1. Mashed at 153. Attenuation 89%.
2. Mashed at 152. Attenuation 90%.
3. Mashed at 153. Attenuation 85%.
4. Mashed at 153. Attenuation 81%.
5. Mashed at 154. Attenuation 84%.
6. Mashed at 153. Attenuation 86%.
7. Mashed at 155. Attenuation 83%.

 

[Calder]

Sounds in line with this yeast's behavior. Your beer attenuated 90%. Don't know that you can expect more out of this yeast.

From a post of mine, 2 pages ago in this thread, my attenuation across 7 beers brewed with this yeast:

IT was a very fermentable wort; low mash temp and ~20% simple sugar. I would expect 90% out of any reasonable yeast with that. Based on what I had heard of Trois, I was expecting it to finish lower. I have it brewing an IPA right now - will see how it turns out.

 

[dantheman13]

Where did you get the information that it is the same as WLP644?

The reason it took a long time to start is because you pitched a small amount. 24 hours is OK.

The owner of Imperial Organic Yeast verified with me in a private email that their A20 Citrus is the same as WLP644.

 

[Wingston75]

Hi all,

I'm currently fermenting a double IPA with a 644 repitch as the sole yeast. I've fermented this high, getting it up to ~31ºC/88ºF, and I was hoping to get knocked over by the tropical fruit aromas. However, I'm mainly getting the sour notes.

the initial IPA I made sat on the yeast for a good while waiting for it to achieve FG, and developed the pellicle I've read about this wild sacch throwing out.

Is the long primary from the first beer (now a golden sour!) likely to be the cause of the souring currently being exhibited in this double IPA, or are people seeing the tropical fruit bomb aromas coming from a period spent in keg, or conditioning in bottle?

I'm incredibly intrigued by this yeast!

cheers!

 

[Jacinthebox]

Hi all,

I'm currently fermenting a double IPA with a 644 repitch as the sole yeast. I've fermented this high, getting it up to ~31ºC/88ºF, and I was hoping to get knocked over by the tropical fruit aromas. However, I'm mainly getting the sour notes.

the initial IPA I made sat on the yeast for a good while waiting for it to achieve FG, and developed the pellicle I've read about this wild sacch throwing out.

Is the long primary from the first beer (now a golden sour!) likely to be the cause of the souring currently being exhibited in this double IPA, or are people seeing the tropical fruit bomb aromas coming from a period spent in keg, or conditioning in bottle?

I'm incredibly intrigued by this yeast!

cheers!

I'm also using 644 to ferment a DIPA. only been 2 weeks. I'll take a reading when I start to dry hop this weekend. I ferment at 27C with this yeast. I normally get big pineapple/Mango in my British Bitter style beer, but I also add Lactic acid in the boil.

 

[hopsandhops]

sub'd

Thinking of using this in an upcoming IPA

 

[TheHairyHop]

Hi all,

I'm currently fermenting a double IPA with a 644 repitch as the sole yeast. I've fermented this high, getting it up to ~31ºC/88ºF, and I was hoping to get knocked over by the tropical fruit aromas. However, I'm mainly getting the sour notes.

the initial IPA I made sat on the yeast for a good while waiting for it to achieve FG, and developed the pellicle I've read about this wild sacch throwing out.

Is the long primary from the first beer (now a golden sour!) likely to be the cause of the souring currently being exhibited in this double IPA, or are people seeing the tropical fruit bomb aromas coming from a period spent in keg, or conditioning in bottle?

I'm incredibly intrigued by this yeast!

cheers!

the yeast isn't going to do much at all in the bottle. are you oxygenating? what's your pitch rate?

 

[Wingston75]

the yeast isn't going to do much at all in the bottle. are you oxygenating? what's your pitch rate?

I oxygenated both beers - tipping from bucket to bucket. I've read that not oxygenating results in a clean beer, no sourness. Would you go along with that?

As for pitching rate - the original pale ale had 1 vial. The double IPA wort was tacked on top of this yeast

 

[Wingston75]

In reply to TheHairyHop - 'Fraid I couldn't quote you from my phone, I was getting an error message

----

I oxygenated both beers - tipping from bucket to bucket. I've read that not oxygenating results in a clean beer, no sourness. Would you go along with that?

As for pitching rate - the original pale ale had 1 vial. The double IPA wort was tacked on top of this yeast

----

 

[Wingston75]

Ah. Apparently it did. Shucks :/