WLP644 -Brett B Trois

[Matteo57]

I've done 1 beer with brett so far, a grapefruit IPA. Unfortunately I think that the brett pulled out too much of the bitterness of the grapefruit and created a weird too bitter (not hop bitterness, but grapefruit bitterness) beer. The same exact beer brewed and fermented with 001 is absolutely amazing!
Really bummed. Will have to try it again sometime without grapefruit! Maybe I'll start building up the starter now for a month or two from now so it will be ready and plenty of time for the brett to multiply!

 

[dcp27]

Some people in this thread suggest that brett trois can enhance bitternesss but I think a few posts said that's not the case, or only at very small levels. Can someone clarify that?

IME, brett primary does not enhance bitterness. as secondary it does as it dries it out more. I've done >100 IBU beers with Trois and never thought it needed to be toned down. Wasn't Trois, but a friend has split an IPA on chico, lager & brett B&C twice now and the brett is def not any more bitter

 

[MattHollingsworth]

a theory just occurred to me, no guarantees that i'm correct tho: cold crash & decant the spent starter beer before pitching the yeast into the new batch and you'll probably be fine. the acetic acid is in the beer, not in the yeast. pour off the "beer" = getting rid of the acetic. as for future acetic production, the brett produced that acetic acid because of specific conditions (extended "over"-oxygenation). that won't be the case in your batch of beer, you'll only have initial oxygenation before the yeast switch to anaerobic fermentation. the yeast shouldn't produce more vinegar.

I decanted mine except for about 500 ml or something. I agree with what you're saying here. Keep the O2 away in the main beer and you shouldn't have much if any acetic.

 

[terrapinj]

I know it was probably discussed somewhere but I couldn't find it looking back

has anyone noticed some pretty gnarly smells from their starter?

i saved a bit of the starter from my last beer a few weeks ago and had it sitting in the flask with foil on at room temp for a few weeks - i went to step it up tonight and the smell was pretty wretched - a little rotten and perhaps a little rubbery but I only picked the rubbery smell up on one whiff

 

[MattHollingsworth]

Yeah. I've had Trois starters smell like really rotting fruit and not in a pleasant way. And I've had them smell very sharp and sour. Neither carried over into the final beer.

Recently made a 100% Brett Brux beer. That starter had a touch of vomit smell in the aroma. Luckily, that did not carry over into the beer at all. And just last week made 100% Brett Claussenii beer. That starter smelled closer to Trois with some sharp fruit smells edging on rotting fruit, but a bit more pleasant than the Trois starter. Haven't tasted the resulting beer with that one yet, though.

 

[jrfehon]

Today I'm brewing a 6 gallon Sculpin IPA clone which I'm going to split three ways and use brett brux trois (snow in Philly means brew day!). 1/3 is going to be clean, 1/3 I'm going to add brett brux trois at bottling and the other 1/3 I'm going to add BBT in the secondary. A bit of an experiment with WLP644. Plus, this will be my first all grain brew (BIAB stovetop)! Here's my clone recipe:

13.2 LB Pale Malt (US 2 Row)
1.2 LB Caramel/Crystal 10L
14.4 oz Cara-Pils
9.6 oz Caravienne

1.2 oz Amarillo (Mash)
.6 oz Warrior (60 min)
.6 oz Magnum (60 min)
.6 oz Crystal (30 min)
.3 oz Centennial (30 min)
.3 oz Simcoe (30 min)
1.2 oz Amarillo (FO)

2 oz Simcoe (Dry Hop - 4 days)
2 oz Amarillo (Dry Hop - 4 Days)

With 70% efficiency (I'm not sure what to expect from my first all grain) I should get a OG of 1.067 and a FG around 1.013 for the "clean" Sculpin. That will get me just over 7% ABV which the real beer has. All six gallons will primary with WLP001 for three weeks which I'll make sure to warm up into the mid 70s towards the end to assure fermentation is complete. I'll transfer 2 gallons into a better bottle and add WLP644. The other 4 gallons will get transferred into a glass carboy for dry hopping. When the beer is clear I'll dry hop for four days and bottle. Half the bottles will get 10 drops of WLP644 in each and the other half will remain "clean". The 1/3 with brett as the secondary strain will age for at least three months until attenuation is complete - then I'll dry hop with Amarillo and Simcoe.

Here are my questions for you with experience using 644.

1. I've read on Oldsock's blog that adding brett at bottling to use 10 drops per 12oz bottle of brett slurry. Has anyone else had success doing this?
2. What temperature would be best to store the bottles I add brett at bottling in? I'm concerned about gushers and bottle bombs.
3. I already have a vial of 644 to add to the brett secondary 1/3 of my experiment. I'd rather not buy another vial of 644 to use with my bottle conditioned brett 1/3. Can I make a starter with 644, pitch part of it in my brett secondary 1/3 and save some of it in the vial to use later with my bottle conditioned brett 1/3? I apologize for the confusion - I couldn't figure out any other way to explain this.

 

[BrasseurGeorges]

2. What temperature would be best to store the bottles I add brett at bottling in? I'm concerned about gushers and bottle bombs.

Leave them at room temp so the brett can work. The trick is to reduce (or eliminate) the priming sugar by the correct amount so you have carbonation without bombs. So you will need to start with an assumption, that the brett will take it down to _____ SG. For me, to avoid a messy and potentially dangerous situation, the first time around I'd just use it in secondary and see where it ends up. Then if you brew the same batch, you can use it at bottling with a bit more confidence.

3. I already have a vial of 644 to add to the brett secondary 1/3 of my experiment. I'd rather not buy another vial of 644 to use with my bottle conditioned brett 1/3. Can I make a starter with 644, pitch part of it in my brett secondary 1/3 and save some of it in the vial to use later with my bottle conditioned brett 1/3? I apologize for the confusion - I couldn't figure out any other way to explain this.

Sure. I'd recommend stepping it up slowly since there's a very small amount of yeast in White Labs' brett vials. I start with a starter in a small 12 oz bottle (like a whopping 7 oz of wort), then step it up to a growler after a week or so.

 

[TrickyDick]

Just pitched this into a citra pale ale inspired by zombie dust. Starter smelled like peach and mangoes, can not wait for this beer.

I apologize for not reading through the entire thread in advance, but wanted to ask, was this a primary fermentation or secondary fermentation Brett pitch? Sounds like a primary I'm guessing.

 

[TrickyDick]

I never heard that about pH and attenuation with brett. However, something about the lower pH or the lactic acid from the acid malt does help the brett produce more tropical fruit notes.

I use acid malt to correct mash pH, which in general amounts to a very small percentage of the grist. The most I've used was 2.9% using only base malts for the rest with my RO water. Though I don't measure my wort pH (maybe I should), I also add some salts to the wort for proper calcium content and to drive pH a bit lower than the mash. I hadn't thought acid malt was really intended for anything but pH correction.

TD

 

[TrickyDick]

OK, wanted to get some feedback on this recipe.

Planning a white ipa type brew with primary wlp644 ferment.

50% 2 row
37% golden promise
4.3% flaked barley
4.3% carahell
4.3% flaked oats

Hoping that carahell and flaked grains make an attempt at a hint of residual body at FG.

Hops
Bittering: Bravo & Galena for 50 IBUs
Whirlpool: Galaxy, Motueka, & Calypso 1oz ea
Dry Hops: Nelson Sauvin

Considering trying to work in some late boil Amarillo and try to work in some El Dorado maybe.

Read the whole thread through. Nice info in here.

Never done a all bret (or ANY bret before this). Never done a white IPA.
Looking for some suggestions. How does the hop combo look? I'm looking for an "in your face" fruit-hop bomb that is easy to drink and refreshing without melting your tongue.

Figure I'll do a starter probably in several stages, and do a NO aerate pitch into the primary at 70ºF

Thanks for feedback.

Also curious how splitting this into two kegs, and treating one half with some golden raisins or dehydrated mango or both and roeselare blend after 7-8 weeks in the primary, maybe some chardonnay soaked oak chips.....

TD

 

[PghMakesMeDrunk]

Crap, I wish I had done a little more research on this strain and the starter needed before I jumped into my first all Brett beer.

I thought it looked a little different from other wlp vials as there was not as much sediment in the bottom as there usually is. I didn't think much of it til today.

I brewed a 50% Belgian Pale, 50% Wheat beer yesterday, 1.053 OG. Hopped with all Nelson Sauvin to about 40 IBU's. I pitched 2 vials of 644 right into the carboy. It's been about 20 hours & I have zero activity. Guess all I can do is wait & see what happens.

 

[Matteo57]

Well my grossly under pitched beer I ended up tossing! Personally, I would suggest throwing in a vial of a Belgian yeast of some kind but not sure if that will help by the time you get it and tore it in. Not sure as I haven't done more than 2 full Brett beers but good luck!

 

[JLem]

Crap, I wish I had done a little more research on this strain and the starter needed before I jumped into my first all Brett beer.

I thought it looked a little different from other wlp vials as there was not as much sediment in the bottom as there usually is. I didn't think much of it til today.

I brewed a 50% Belgian Pale, 50% Wheat beer yesterday, 1.053 OG. Hopped with all Nelson Sauvin to about 40 IBU's. I pitched 2 vials of 644 right into the carboy. It's been about 20 hours & I have zero activity. Guess all I can do is wait & see what happens.

Two vials should be plenty. It will work. Just give it time. I did a standard starter for my 100% Brett Trois beer - just like any ale strain - and it turned out to be one of the best beers I ever made.

RDWHAHB

 

[PghMakesMeDrunk]

Two vials should be plenty. It will work. Just give it time. I did a standard starter for my 100% Brett Trois beer - just like any ale strain - and it turned out to be one of the best beers I ever made.

RDWHAHB

Yeah, it seemed to pick up last night and is going good now. I'm just not used to that much lag time.

I still have 1 vial of 644 Im planning to use with something else. I will definitely make a starter with that first. I'm gonna have this cake too, I was thinking about a Fruit Beer maybe when this is done.

 

[terrapinj]

any had issues with acetone aroma/mild flavor with this strain?

I have a ~ 2month old berliner weisse (no boil) that I soured the wort for a few days in a corny and then pitched a large starter of Trois and it has a nose/taste of acetone. My starter for my upcoming Trois XPA has the same nose on it as well

 

[Matteo57]

Yeah, it seemed to pick up last night and is going good now. I'm just not used to that much lag time.

I still have 1 vial of 644 Im planning to use with something else. I will definitely make a starter with that first. I'm gonna have this cake too, I was thinking about a Fruit Beer maybe when this is done.

I'm guessing if you have been doing your homework since your last pitch you know this, but just make sure you give your starter a long period of time to grow. I believe it is usually about 20 something days that was suggested from Chad Yakobson from Crooked stave. There are I guess three stages of growth in brett growth. Interesting stuff!
Good luck with your one batch, hopefully it will turn out better than mine did!

 

[metic]

any had issues with acetone aroma/mild flavor with this strain?

I have a ~ 2month old berliner weisse (no boil) that I soured the wort for a few days in a corny and then pitched a large starter of Trois and it has a nose/taste of acetone. My starter for my upcoming Trois XPA has the same nose on it as well

I've had a few starters that smelt like this, but never a finished beer (so far). If you look at Chad Yakobson's research, he found that some strains of brett produce higher levels of ethyl acetate when pitched into pre-soured wort (see here, p.20, 32), so that might explain what you're seeing. I would give it more time though, as these flavours might dissipate or be further modified by the brett.

 

[adrock430]

Acetone smell is ethyl acetate and sure fire evidence of acetobacter infection. Limiting air contact is key to preventing this, as alcohol is converted by acetobacter into acetic acid in the presence of oxygen. The acetate will then react with some ethanol, making ethyl acetate.

If the acetone is real bad you can blend. It's pleasant and fruity at lower concentrations. Doesn't really age out tho, at least not after a year in my experience.

 

[Petekiteworld]

Just put together an all citra wheat APA with all brett trois. Made a quick starter for 5 days then pitched, had activity in the fermentor in 12hrs. Bubbling away steadily at 72, blowoff smells delicious!

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[badlee]

One gallon of 1800 Whitbread London Porter.
The Durden Park recipe says"quality ale yeast", doesn't get much more quality than BBT

Sent from my GT-I8552B using Home Brew mobile app

 

[Oophaga]

Have 5.25 gallons in the fermenter of an IPA with only wlp644. I am excited about this batch, did a hop stand for 45 minutes with 2.25oz of citra and centennial, fruit bomb is the goal. Hopefully I didn't overdo the golden naked oats, did two pounds, but from what I read it isn't that sweet like normal crystal so hopefully itll add complexity with a nice body.

 

[Petekiteworld]

I used a pound of golden naked and a pound of caravienne

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[BrewinHooligan]

Got a starter going last night for a batch I'm brewing this weekend. My first all Brett beer with a simple grain bill. 7.5lbs pilsner, 1.5lb malted wheat, 1lb raw wheat and 4oz of Nelson Sauvin. Can't wait to get it going.

 

[TrickyDick]

Got a starter going last night for a batch I'm brewing this weekend. My first all Brett beer with a simple grain bill. 7.5lbs pilsner, 1.5lb malted wheat, 1lb raw wheat and 4oz of Nelson Sauvin. Can't wait to get it going.

Several folks have mentioned that the Brett starters take longer to grow. May want to verify before you potentially underpitch.

TD

 

[BrewinHooligan]

Several folks have mentioned that the Brett starters take longer to grow. May want to verify before you potentially underpitch.

TD

I have seen that throughout this thread and elsewhere as well and am aware I am potentially underpitching this beer but I have seen several earlier on in this thread had success with shorter starter times so I'm willing to take the risk. My 2l starter is going really strong today at ambient temps of 76 and will report back with fermentation results as they happen.

 

[TrickyDick]

Sounds good. I like your plan so be sure to let us know how it turns out. One thing I recall is that folks said it smelled great during fermentation, but the citrus aromas didn't carry into the finished beer, which is a bummer if you ask me.
Seems like you had read all about it, so was glad you're already aware of my caution.
Let us know how yours turns out. Are you planning to oxygenate the wort for the beer?

TD

 

[BrewinHooligan]

I use a chugger pump to transfer the beer from the bk through the plate chiller and that process oxygenates the beer pretty well, so yes I will be oxygenating and am hoping for a more tart/funky end result.

 

[dcp27]

My 2l starter is going really strong today at ambient temps of 76 and will report back with fermentation results as they happen.

trois always acts quick for me, if you're already showing strong activity it will def be fine to use this weekend

I use a chugger pump to transfer the beer from the bk through the plate chiller and that process oxygenates the beer pretty well, so yes I will be oxygenating and am hoping for a more tart/funky end result.

if funky is what you're after, 100% isn't really the proper route, its more like tropical fruit

 

[BrewinHooligan]

trois always acts quick for me, if you're already showing strong activity it will def be fine to use this weekend



if funky is what you're after, 100% isn't really the proper route, its more like tropical fruit

Yeah, I just checked the starter that has already started building a nice layer of growth. Went to swirl it (no stirplate) and the thing went all volcano on me. Needless to say I'm super impressed with the growth of this strain. I don't expect super funky, but from what I have read I am hoping to get some tartness from the yeast from the oxygen as opposed to only fruit from no oxygen.

 

[Petekiteworld]

My starter acted like sacch, fast and furious

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Home Brew mobile app