WLP644 -Brett B Trois

[smw356]

I tasted again.. and it's not that smoky after all.. it's more like a spicy phenolic with a dry woody finish. Combined to the alcool kick (9%), it might be percieved a bit solvent-like, at first... Do you know where it could come from? Too much oxygen? Fermented too hot? (from 72 to 77)

I got the same thing in a double IPA that I did with Trois, I dont think its too much oxygen or temps since I didn't oxygenate and fermented at 65 rising to 72.

It also didn't show up until after being kegged and carbed for a week or two.

 

[m00se]

Have you guys been cold crashing before kegging? The 1st round of dry hops have been floating on the surface of the beer in the carboy. I'm ready to rack to a keg but it looks like the beer isn't ready.

 

[Matteo57]

What have ya'll found to be the best temps to ferment beer with 100% brett b trois and what are the different flavors that one might get low vs high temp ranges?

 

[kaips1]

What have ya'll found to be the best temps to ferment beer with 100% brett b trois and what are the different flavors that one might get low vs high temp ranges?

You want 70ish, too low a temp and it'll stall out and can produce esters you may not like, don't remember off hand what the descriptors are.

 

[Matteo57]

What about higher temps? Like 75-80? WL site says optimal is 70-85... You going to get funky flavors in the high 70s and low 80s?

 

[dcp27]

You want 70ish, too low a temp and it'll stall out and can produce esters you may not like, don't remember off hand what the descriptors are.

I don't agree with this. I generally ferment brett at whatever is room temp (~70-75F), but when I've used it in the lower 60s there's never been a problem with attenuation or esters

 

[Matteo57]

It's the higher temps I'm worried about. Since it's been hotter lately where I live. I was away from my house for a couple days and fermenting something in my chest freezer and wanted to control that one a bit more than my 100% brett beer. So I left it out in my garage which usually is around 72-75 or lower. Well When I got back the beer was around 80-81F and I just am a bit worried it got too hot even though the WL site says 70-85F since most I see about all brett, including this strain, are fermented in around 65-70s range.

 

[andrewcoopergt]

It's the higher temps I'm worried about.

I'm also in this same sort of scenario that mine is fermenting on the higher range.

Also, I just racked a Citra pale ale onto the yeast cake from my last Trois batch. Anyone had any experiences with a second generation? You find many differences in flavor?

 

[berebrando]

I don't agree with this. I generally ferment brett at whatever is room temp (~70-75F), but when I've used it in the lower 60s there's never been a problem with attenuation or esters

I use higher temps. I generally start fermentation around 70 and let it ramp up naturally. Though, I have only let it ramp up to a maximum of 78. I really like this ferment profile for Brett.

When I used this strain at 60, it fermented. The fermentation took forever. I experienced krausen and very slow bubbling for around 4 weeks straight. The flavor profile was not what I was looking for either. The intense fruitiness did not show up very well.

 

[berebrando]

I'm also in this same sort of scenario that mine is fermenting on the higher range.

Also, I just racked a Citra pale ale onto the yeast cake from my last Trois batch. Anyone had any experiences with a second generation? You find many differences in flavor?

When this strain came out in 2012, I bought two vials and repitched probably 5 or 6 times (may have been more!) before I was able to find a new vial this year. It was a hardy yeast but I did notice that it shifted a little bit over time. With that said, I probably put it through some torturous experiments - everything from 60 to 78 fermentation temperature and gravities from 1.040 to 1.070. Still made some killer beer!

 

[terrapinj]

anyone used this strain as the primary strain for a berliner weisse? added any fruit?

1st attempt with be an XPA and would like to use it as the primary strain for a berliner as well (likely sour mash method but TBD), possibly with fruit added to some/all of the batch - will likely wait to taste to decide which fruit to add but curious if anyone has prior experiences

 

[hallebrewer]

anyone used this strain as the primary strain for a berliner weisse? added any fruit?

1st attempt with be an XPA and would like to use it as the primary strain for a berliner as well (likely sour mash method but TBD), possibly with fruit added to some/all of the batch - will likely wait to taste to decide which fruit to add but curious if anyone has prior experiences

I recently racked a sour beer fermented with Trois onto 4lbs of underripe plums to age for a bit. Final results aren't in but samples tasted good.

 

[whatisboom]

anyone used this strain as the primary strain for a berliner weisse? added any fruit?

1st attempt with be an XPA and would like to use it as the primary strain for a berliner as well (likely sour mash method but TBD), possibly with fruit added to some/all of the batch - will likely wait to taste to decide which fruit to add but curious if anyone has prior experiences

I was just thinking this as I was reading through the thread. Although my previous BW batches have been almost too good to modify.

 

[kaips1]

I was just thinking this as I was reading through the thread. Although my previous BW batches have been almost too good to modify.

My buddy only does lacto/Brett bw's and they are phenomenal. With the right fruit additions its a whole new beast. Lactos better than sour mashing and Brett adds way more complexity than any sacch strain.

 

[Brulosopher]

I was just thinking this as I was reading through the thread. Although my previous BW batches have been almost too good to modify.

Recipe and process, por favor?

 

[badlee]

anyone used this strain as the primary strain for a berliner weisse? added any fruit?

1st attempt with be an XPA and would like to use it as the primary strain for a berliner as well (likely sour mash method but TBD), possibly with fruit added to some/all of the batch - will likely wait to taste to decide which fruit to add but curious if anyone has prior experiences

I did with mulberries and home made lacto. The Brett helped carry the flavour a lot, but I feel the home cultured lacto may have been the down fall of the brew.

 

[whatisboom]

Recipe and process, por favor?

70/30 2-row/white wheat
~1.030
Mashed low
15 minute boil
No hops
Pitched a 2 liter Wyeast 5335 lacto starter (crashed and decanted)
2 weeks just lacto (I like it sour)
Pitched 1007 even though it was near terminal gravity

Was kind of bland so I pitched Brett Lambicus for ~3 months. 5 gallons plain, other 5 gallons got 9lbs of unpasteurized bing cherries

Both were/are absolutely amazing. The cherry half is INSANELY tart. I love it.

 

[loftybrewer]

Just drank a cider that I made with this strain. Rather dry but with that slight sweetness that preserves the apple flavor. Flocc'ed 2 days after kreusen subsided. I am trying different yeasts for cider and so far, interestingly, Brett trois is my favorite.
I have so far used this strain in cider, a double IPA, and a strong dark mild ale (in conjunction with brett A from Mo Betta dregs).

 

[andrewcoopergt]

I have so far used this strain in cider, a double IPA, and a strong dark mild ale (in conjunction with brett A from Mo Betta dregs).

This is actually a perfect spot for me to ask my question. For everyone who has successfully done an IPA or hoppy pale with this strain, how long are you letting it age before you keg/bottle?

I ask because I just did a hoppy citra pale ale with 100% Brett Trois. I let it sit for six weeks to make sure most/all fermentation had stopped. I kegged it yesterday, and after tasting a sample, am incredibly disappointed. At about 3 weeks it was incredible, with intense citrus and extremely clean. Now it seems to have lost almost all of it's hop flavor and really just isnt very good.

Any useful tips out there?

 

[Matteo57]

Dry hop it? Most ipas that I have seen recipes for with 100% Brett are dry hopped right before packaging. That's what I did for my ipa with Brett. Turned out awesome! Let it sit in primary for about 4 weeks. Cheers

 

[kaips1]

This is actually a perfect spot for me to ask my question. For everyone who has successfully done an IPA or hoppy pale with this strain, how long are you letting it age before you keg/bottle?

I ask because I just did a hoppy citra pale ale with 100% Brett Trois. I let it sit for six weeks to make sure most/all fermentation had stopped. I kegged it yesterday, and after tasting a sample, am incredibly disappointed. At about 3 weeks it was incredible, with intense citrus and extremely clean. Now it seems to have lost almost all of it's hop flavor and really just isnt very good.

Any useful tips out there?

Give it another 2-3 wks, trois goes through phases and it should improve, it may not be what you expect but it will improve

 

[MattHollingsworth]

I've done a few now and I let them sit for about 7 weeks in primary before bottling or kegging. 3 were dry hopped and 1 was not. 2 were kegged, 2 were bottled. The ones in the kegs were drank about 2 weeks after kegging at parties and were awesome. Those were dry hopped for a week before kegging. The non dry hopped one was bottled almost 4 months ago. It's been awesome the entire time and the hoppiness and fruitiness are not drying down. The latest one was bottled a few weeks ago and is drinking nicely now.

 

[metic]

I followed Chad Yakobson's advice to give my brett trois starter 7+ days. About to use it this evening, and it has a distinct acetic acid/vinegary taste. I know brett will produce acetic acid, but I'm worried that acetobacter might also have taken off, since the starter was on the stir-plate for a week and had plenty of oxygen. Does anyone have any experience with vinegary starters from this yeast? I don't really want much sourness in the beer I'm pitching it into, so I'm considering racking another beer from secondary and using the cake from that instead.

 

[sweetcell]

I followed Chad Yakobson's advice to give my brett trois starter 7+ days. About to use it this evening, and it has a distinct acetic acid/vinegary taste. I know brett will produce acetic acid, but I'm worried that acetobacter might also have taken off, since the starter was on the stir-plate for a week and had plenty of oxygen. Does anyone have any experience with vinegary starters from this yeast? I don't really want much sourness in the beer I'm pitching it into, so I'm considering racking another beer from secondary and using the cake from that instead.

ouch. tough one.

on the one hand, many people say that brett can produce acetic acid. high levels of oxygen are required for this to happen, so a week on a stir plate is a good candidate for that.

on the other hand, it's not a common occurrence. you don't hear tons of reports of brett starters going all vinegar. i've now made 2 brett B starters, each left on the stir plate for over a week and neither had any vinegar smells (yes, anecdotal, i know).

i guess it comes down to: are you feeling lucky, punk?

 

[metic]

Yeah, I don't think I'm going to risk it. Pitching on the yeast from this secondary fermenter isn't ideal either---I'm probably under-pitching, for one thing---but I really don't want to end up with 3 gallons of vinegary baltic porter! Thanks for the help.

 

[dinnerstick]

i have had a distinctly acetic smelling starter, chilled decanted and pitched, beer came out exactly as i wanted it (ie nothing like salad dressing) i can't exactly remember if it was trois or brux

 

[jrfehon]

First, this is a really great thread especially now that it's a few years old and you can read about everyone's 644 brews from start to finish. I want to give this a shot and brew a 100% brett trois IPA but I have a few questions.

Some people in this thread suggest that brett trois can enhance bitternesss but I think a few posts said that's not the case, or only at very small levels. Can someone clarify that? If it does enhance bitterness what would a desired level of IBUs be and what amount of bittering hops for a 5 gallon/60 minute boil would be recommended? I was thinking about brewing a clean IPA next (Sculpin clone) but now I'm considering using WLP644 instead of a California ale yeast for this. However, the clone recipe I have does call for a high level of bittering hops. I want to make sure I have the right hop bill before I attempt this beer.

 

[ne0t0ky0]

First, this is a really great thread especially now that it's a few years old and you can read about everyone's 644 brews from start to finish. I want to give this a shot and brew a 100% brett trois IPA but I have a few questions.

Some people in this thread suggest that brett trois can enhance bitternesss but I think a few posts said that's not the case, or only at very small levels. Can someone clarify that? If it does enhance bitterness what would a desired level of IBUs be and what amount of bittering hops for a 5 gallon/60 minute boil would be recommended? I was thinking about brewing a clean IPA next (Sculpin clone) but now I'm considering using WLP644 instead of a California ale yeast for this. However, the clone recipe I have does call for a high level of bittering hops. I want to make sure I have the right hop bill before I attempt this beer.

I've done two beers with Brett B. Trois, a Belgian IPA and an ESB and both had a stronger lingering bittering finish than I expected. I'd cut my ibus by 10 to 20% next time.

 

[MattHollingsworth]

I wouldn't worry about the acetic. I had a very acetic starter with Trois a few months back and the resulting beer was great.

My process with that starter was a bit weird. I made the starter, first two steps, but then something came up and I couldn't use it. It had been on a stirplate. Took it off the stirplate and it sat for a few weeks. When I came back to it, it had a pellicle. I stepped it up once more and it was quite acetic. I was a touch worried. Made a Brett Trois IPA with it and it came out great. Not sour, not acetic. Great beer.

Anyway, that's my experience with that. I don't worry about it anymore.

 

[sweetcell]

a theory just occurred to me, no guarantees that i'm correct tho: cold crash & decant the spent starter beer before pitching the yeast into the new batch and you'll probably be fine. the acetic acid is in the beer, not in the yeast. pour off the "beer" = getting rid of the acetic. as for future acetic production, the brett produced that acetic acid because of specific conditions (extended "over"-oxygenation). that won't be the case in your batch of beer, you'll only have initial oxygenation before the yeast switch to anaerobic fermentation. the yeast shouldn't produce more vinegar.