Wilser bag woes

[UdonPete]

I agree with most replies, the BrewBag is far superior The Brew Bag-Designed for Brew In A Bag-This is your LAST brew bag!

 

[wepeeler]

I agree with most replies, the BrewBag is far superior The Brew Bag-Designed for Brew In A Bag-This is your LAST brew bag!

Definitely not. The Wilser bag is way better quality and wort drains better. I started with the Brew Bag but would never go back.

 

[UdonPete]

Definitely not. The Wilser bag is way better quality and wort drains better. I started with the Brew Bag but would never go back.

I can accept the Wilser bag has larger mesh to enable it to drain faster* but I've never had a problem draining (then squeezing) the Brew Bag however with that farcical method of tying up the mouth of the bag makes it a no-no
*question is, is a large mesh which allows more trub to escape preferable?

 

[wepeeler]

I can accept the Wilser bag has larger mesh to enable it to drain faster* but I've never had a problem draining (then squeezing) the Brew Bag however with that farcical method of tying up the mouth of the bag makes it a no-no
*question is, is a large mesh which allows more trub to escape preferable?

It's actually finer mesh than the Brew Bag. But the material allows the wort to flow through very nicely.

 

[UdonPete]

It's actually finer mesh than the Brew Bag. But the material allows the wort to flow through very nicely.

Sorry I have to laugh, a hole is a hole and a smaller diameter equals less flow

 

[whoaru99]

That said, amidst demonstrations of Wilser bags holding 120 pounds of weights, it would come as some surprise if the bag isn't intended for the size of my grain bill.

Weight itself isn't the matter at hand.

36lb is 36lb whether it's 36lb of steel or grain or ping pong balls. Completely different volumes though.

 

[wepeeler]

Sorry I have to laugh, a hole is a hole and a smaller diameter equals less flow

Laugh all you want. I've used both, and my experience with the Wilser bag is a better one. I would never try to sell anyone on an inferior product.

 

[mac_1103]

Yes, it's almost exactly 18 gallons. I agree this could be a factor but it doesn't seem to be that out of the ordinary.

I think lots of folks would say that full volume BIAB with 36 lbs in a 20 gallon kettle is well out of the ordinary. As has been said, you're leaving yourself a very small amount of space above the mash. That's why the standard height bag design doesn't leave you as much material to wrap as you'd like. You said your first bag worked well - what size what your old kettle and how much grain were you mashing in it?

 

[brewdaytoday]

There's nothing odd about my setup. BrewHardware says a 20 gallon BIAB kettle is good for "6 to 12 gallon batches with practically no upper ABV limit." I'm making just less than 12 gallons of 1.075 wort to go into a 14 gallon fermenter. And in fact, the only weak link in my simple process is the Wilser bag.

Here's a picture from Wilser's website that shows a close-to-the-rim mash. I'll also point out all that extra slack down the outside of the kettle.

Whether it's weights or huge grain bills, Wilser highlights big batches and never cautions customers that his bags have limits. Also from his website this large grain bill - and look at all that slack:

 

[whoaru99]

Already demonstrated you can and have lifted successfully. Case closed as I see it.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Those big batch pics you're showing from Wilser's website are of a big volume mash, but not very big grain bill. A lot of that volume is still in the kettle in the form of wort.

This is something like 14-16lbs in a 5G kettle. 1qt/lb. Trying to get a hitch on the bag itself is really tough. By the time it's drained it could more easily be done, but by that point why bother.

ETA: That's my annual once a year big brew. 1.100 barleywine or imperial stout. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do. My typical brew is the same push-the-limit mash volume @ 1040-60 @ 5-8lbs and I choke the bag easily.

 

[ba-brewer]

I'm making just less than 12 gallons of 1.075 wort to go into a 14 gallon fermenter.

Thanks for posting details of your brew, I was wondering what kind of beer 36lb would make. Seems like a big beer but not too huge.

 

[mac_1103]

BrewHardware says a 20 gallon BIAB kettle is good for "6 to 12 gallon batches with practically no upper ABV limit."

BrewHardware also says that you shouldn't try to do a full volume mash with more than 25 lbs of grain in a 20 gallon kettle:

"BIAB is typically done as a full volume mash with no sparging which means when the grain bag is removed, you are left with enough wort to begin boiling down to the finished batch size immediately. This makes the total kettle size important. The chart below shows the max gravity you can achieve per batch and kettle size assuming a no sparge process.

Batch Size	Kettle Size (gallons)	Max Grain Weight (LBS)	Max Gravity at 70% efficiency
5	10	22	1.106
5	15	50	1.220
10	15	22	1.077
15	20	25	1.058
15	25	50	1.116

As you can see, by contrast BIAB will require a larger kettle than multi-vessel brewing all else being equal."

 

[brewdaytoday]

BrewHardware also says that you shouldn't try to do a full volume mash with more than 25 lbs of grain in a 20 gallon kettle:

"BIAB is typically done as a full volume mash with no sparging which means when the grain bag is removed, you are left with enough wort to begin boiling down to the finished batch size immediately. This makes the total kettle size important. The chart below shows the max gravity you can achieve per batch and kettle size assuming a no sparge process.

Batch Size	Kettle Size (gallons)	Max Grain Weight (LBS)	Max Gravity at 70% efficiency
5	10	22	1.106
5	15	50	1.220
10	15	22	1.077
15	20	25	1.058
15	25	50	1.116

As you can see, by contrast BIAB will require a larger kettle than multi-vessel brewing all else being equal."

I think you're misreading this. The line you highlighted shows a batch size of 15 gallons (mine is 12 gallons). A 15 gallon batch with 25 gallons of grain is about a 19.6 gallon full mash volume. I think the reason they're saying 25 lbs is the max (for a 15 gallon batch size) is because you literally can't fit any more grains without overflowing the kettle. To get to the same 19.6 gallon level with my 12 gallon batch size would allow 49 pounds of grain.

In fact, I think that chart supports the idea that my 12 gallons 36 pound mash is reasonable - the chart legitimizes a 19.6 gallon full volume mash in a 20 gallon pot (my mash is only 18 gallons).

Does my interpretation of the chart sound reasonable?

 

[whoaru99]

Bottom line is the bag size is what it is. If you want more neck in the bag with that type of load you will need to get a taller bag.

I can see why you might want a taller bag, and understand you think Wilser owes you a taller bag. But, I'm not seeing Wilser's culpability.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Here folks is the main reason why 98% of my business is now wholesale.

I recall this nightmare like it was yesterday, even though it was years ago, the OP and I traded at least a half dozen emails w him wanting to debate me at length.

I suggested using the draw string to hoist and that was unacceptable to him for many reasons….then I suggested attaching the hoist to the drawstring and hoisting the bag off the bottom of the kettle, allowing more bag slack up top to wrap the choker…
Also to mention, the OP’s kettle is unusually short and wide, that may also contribute to his issues…
After at least a half dozen emails, I offered to make him a bag to whatever dimensions he desired at a discount, to which I received no response.
Also of importance, this happened years ago, so I would assume he’s using the bag, but it’s not in sync with his idiosyncrasies or medication jk…

It’s a fact, you can’t please all the people all the time, no matter how hard you try…

To my 9,999 other satisfied customers, thank you.
I regret making this sale and apologize to the OP for the hardship I’ve caused.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Where does one go to retrieve their good reputation back after such slander
?
Happy Holidays
Thanks again,
Wilser

 

[shoengine]

It’s a fact, you can’t please all the people all the time, no matter how hard you try…

To my 9,999 other satisfied customers, thank you.
I regret making this sale and apologize to the OP for the hardship I’ve caused.

It's bound to happen at some point. People are just people.

We've offered suggestions and nothing works, so I'm assuming this is just a way to complain.

 

[brewdaytoday]

I just wanted the same experience I had with my first bag and that I see in pictures of others using your bags. Instead, cinching the bag is now the only frustrating part of each and every brew day. After considering other possibilities, I believe the only reason for this is the bag should have been made taller.

You're the expert in bag design and we operate by the rules you set: we give you kettle dimensions and you choose the bag dimensions. If you build a bag that isn't tall enough, I need to just buy a new bag till you get it right?

You once claimed: "no other vendor comes close to standing behind his product like myself, with regard to warranty repair / replacement." That's why I thought I could just explain my situation to you, show that I was diligent at troubleshooting it, and you would make me a new bag. Especially for a repeat customer. Instead you quickly decided I must be doing something wrong and treated me like garbage.

I offered to make him a bag to whatever dimensions he desired at a discount,

You lowered the price from $27 to $25, which I think most people would take as the same type of insult as leaving a single penny tip at a restaurant.

 

[Yooper]

I think everyone has had their say and there isn’t much more to add.