Will this cheap 3500 watt induction burner work?

[jeffmeh]

Generally many appliances such as this aren't left running unsupervised. Electric brewer or no I do have a ABC fire extinguisher in my shop so it the appliance in question did catch fire I can deal with it.

BTW if the appliance shorted it would suddenly draw a lot more current and would trip the main breaker for that circuit. Again not much of a problem.

The only point I am trying to make is that just because wiring is in an appliance rather than the house wiring, it does not become exempt from the laws of physics. A bad contact could overheat 14 awg wiring in an appliance before the amperage draw throws a 30a breaker. Again, not likely, but possible.

Suggesting that one need not ever be concerned with fuses/breakers to protect wires in appliances is incorrect. Suggesting it on a forum where many are building DIY high-current panels that will operate in a wet environment is imprudent.

 

[The_Bishop]

No one here was suggesting that fuses or breakers to protect appliances were unnecessary. You were insisting that plugging in a 30 amp load into a 50 amp outlet was crazy because the circuit breaker in the panel was 'too big' and that's just not correct.

 

[trussell]

The only point I am trying to make is that just because wiring is in an appliance rather than the house wiring, it does not become exempt from the laws of physics. A bad contact could overheat 14 awg wiring in an appliance before the amperage draw throws a 30a breaker. Again, not likely, but possible.

Suggesting that one need not ever be concerned with fuses/breakers to protect wires in appliances is incorrect. Suggesting it on a forum where many are building DIY high-current panels that will operate in a wet environment is imprudent.

Yes if you're building you own panel and have what are to be lower amperage circuits you should have fuses or breakers to protect those circuits. My workshop has a sub-panel that is 220 50A fed from the main panel. It then feeds other circuits each though its own breaker. Not arguing that point however we're talking an appliance plugged into a circuit.

 

[jeffmeh]

Where was I suggesting that it was crazy? Perhaps someone else did? I merely pointed out that in the type of scenario the breaker would not be protecting the 10awg wire.

 

[rayf]

My point was the pigtail that was mentioned. Dropping that 30 amp circuit down to 12 gauge wire is not a good idea. The longer that pigtail is the less that wires ampacity is also. It may have an ampacity of 20 amps at a short length but lower ampacity at longer lengths. The 12 gauge pigtail becomes a fuse of sorts in this application. That 12 gauge wire will burn before that 30 amp breaker will kick. Also the 20 amp 220 volt outlet is then under rated when on a 30 amp circuit.

Will this all work?
No doubt! 99% of the time! It's the 1% percent that I'm worried about.

Are these good wiring practices to be teaching to Joe Blow Beer maker?

NO! There are too many other variables that Joe does not understand that could burn Joe's house down.

 

[fbold1]

Well I have had my 3500 watt unit for some time but just used it for the first time, yesterday.
I had been using a 1800 watt Duxtop. I would say the results were amazing, fast boil, and great control of the boil to prevent boil over messes. I am very happy with the results.
By the way, I connected it to a 20 amp dedicated circuit, and the pot has a tri-clad bottom.��

 

[whoaru99]

No one here was suggesting that fuses or breakers to protect appliances were unnecessary. You were insisting that plugging in a 30 amp load into a 50 amp outlet was crazy because the circuit breaker in the panel was 'too big' and that's just not correct.

It's not too crazy, actually.

If the device was designed for 30A max service, conductors inside are likely sized with that in mind. Whereas, designed for 50A service there will have to be other considerations.

For example, within NEC points tap conductors, say that 15A wire rating is acceptable is some situations where the main circuit is less than 40A. However, for 40A and greater, the minimum rating jumps to 20A.

So, what was permissible in the device intended for use on a circuit with 30A OCP is now a code violation connected to a 50A circuit.

 

[Physicsbrewer]

Well I have had my 3500 watt unit for some time but just used it for the first time, yesterday.
I had been using a 1800 watt Duxtop. I would say the results were amazing, fast boil, and great control of the boil to prevent boil over messes. I am very happy with the results.
By the way, I connected it to a 20 amp dedicated circuit.��

Nice. What was your boil volume?

 

[fbold1]

About 4 gallons. The diameter of my pot is 12". The size of the the top surface of the unit is 11" x 11", it probably would be less efficient if the pot had a larger diameter.

 

[cheesecake]

I have brewed 4 batches on the 3500 watt induction burner and it works great. But I also wish it would get my 13 gallons up to boil faster so I purchased a heat stick.

 

[brettwasbtd]

I have brewed 4 batches on the 3500 watt induction burner and it works great. But I also wish it would get my 13 gallons up to boil faster so I purchased a heat stick.

To clarify you brought 13 gallons to a boil with just the 3500w? If so how long did it take

 

[cheesecake]

To clarify you brought 13 gallons to a boil with just the 3500w? If so how long did it take

Yea I brew 11 gallon batches. 13 gallon starting volume. I use the bayou 1064 16 gallon kettle on the 3500w induction burner

 

[cheesecake]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1456180093.132330.jpg

 

[cheesecake]

From mash out to boil it takes about 35-45 minutes

 

[augiedoggy]

that's not the tri clad bottom right? if not I would look into the steel discs you can get to set in the bottom and increase the heat conductive surface area as Ive read that 304 stainless is less than ideal with a conductive top and although it works I believe there are more magnetic grades of stainless that work better.

 

[cheesecake]

Not tri clad and there is a post about the plates not working. Everything works as it should it's just a large amount of liquid to get boiling. With 5 gallons of water from 170 to boil it takes 16 minutes

 

[trussell]

I added a 2000W heat stick from brew hardware. Really speeds getting to boil. The Induction handles maintaining without a problem.

 

[cheesecake]

I added a 2000W heat stick from brew hardware. Really speeds getting to boil. The Induction handles maintaining without a problem.

That's where I ordered mine from. I went with the 1500 watt because i don't have a dedicated 20 amp outlet where I brew.

 

[augiedoggy]

Not tri clad and there is a post about the plates not working. Everything works as it should it's just a large amount of liquid to get boiling. With 5 gallons of water from 170 to boil it takes 16 minutes

No offense meant here but the science behind how they work would suggest something was wrong with the plates used in that thread... The more magnetic the metal the more efficient the cooktop.. I'm not saying your setup doesn't work well without it, Just that it should work better with the more desirable grade of stainless for induction... I have the same bayou classic kettles as your using and a magnet doesn't even stick to them so they are less than ideal as far as efficiency for induction. If your thinking about investing all that effort in more supplemental heating elements I just think maybe another look should be given to improving what you already have is all...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_cooking

 

[cheesecake]

I have compared my times with others using tri clad pots and there is no difference.

Here is the link to the plate
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=512717&page=2

 

[augiedoggy]

I have compared my times with others using tri clad pots and there is no difference.

Here is the link to the plate
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=512717&page=2

Did you read that thread? Where did it say it was used sucessfully and made no difference? The only reference I could see to someone using it was from anoldur and he said he wasnt able to use it due to an overheat error he kept getting with it? (To me that would indicate it was making a difference in heat output despite there being something wrong with the cooktop.)

here is a quote from the following article, http://blog.metrokitchen.com/what-makes-cookware-induction-compatible/


"How do you know if your cookware is compatible with induction cook tops?
The best way to be certain is to see if a magnet will stick to the cookware. If a magnet sticks to the cookware it is induction compatible. For any cookware to be induction compatible it must have a magnetic material built into it. Cast iron is a magnetic material, so it is good cookware for an induction cook top. Stainless steel cookware is popular cookware as it dishwasher friendly, looks beautiful over time and is much lighter than cast iron. Unfortunately stainless steel causes confusion when it comes to induction cook tops. The problem stems from the fact that all stainless steel is not magnetic. In order for stainless steel cookware to be induction friendly it has to have 18/0 stainless steel or another magnetic material built into it. Manufacturers that want their cookware to be induction compatible typically add 18/0 stainless steel to their cookware to make it induction capable. The design of your stainless cookware really will not matter. It can be disc bottom or clad in design, as long as it has 18/0 stainless steel or another magnetic material it will work with induction cook tops"

Again the 304 grade of stainless used in my bayou classic 16 gallon kettles is not magnetic enough for a magnet to stick at all so how can it work just as well for a magnetic driven heat source?
Is it possible "others" you compared times with were trying common copper clad 304 stainless kettles instead of steel clad which wouldnt work any better than the bayou if made of 304 or even 201 stainless?

 

[cheesecake]

Ok we can solve this... Buy me a 15 gallon induction ready kettle and prove me wrong

 

[cheesecake]

And another thing on this subject... No one using anything but a bayou classic pot has showed 13 gallons at a boil. So again it must not be working good enough.

 

[augiedoggy]

And another thing on this subject... No one using anything but a bayou classic pot has showed 13 gallons at a boil. So again it must not be working good enough.

Apparently not good enough...

I have brewed 4 batches on the 3500 watt induction burner and it works great. But I also wish it would get my 13 gallons up to boil faster so I purchased a heat stick.

all I did was mention that there are better options to make your induction top work better so you wont have to use extra heat sticks and you get all defensive.. You claim the other options dont work and misquote other threads you prove me wrong despite that fact that the simple science behind how they work says otherwise... Its like you just dont want to be wrong no matter how much you would benefit... Whatever man I see your mind is made up no matter how wrong your "experience" or should I say the experience of others? Whom you have no idea what they were using was..

Its not rocket science.. if a magnet sticks to it , It should work better for induction. depending on how many steel clad layers there are it could work even better. Just like the page I linked above indicates.

 

[cheesecake]

My mind isn't made up and if the plate throws a over heat error how is it better? The only other option is to buy a new kettle that is 3 times more expensive then a heat stick.

Now I have a question? Do you brew with a induction cook top?

 

[AnOldUR]

The thread being quoted is mine. The over heating reason for the diffuser plate not work did not show that the plate was helping. It was just the opposite. Induction works well because it transfers the heat directly into the liquid. What the plate did was transfer heat back into the induction hob and cause it to over heat. Useful heat was being lost.

A thin wall pot is actually better at transferring the heat from an induction plate to the liquid. A clad pot will transfer heat over a wider area, but will also lose heat that would have gone into the liquid. The advantage of a clad pot is less chance of scorching when using it for cooking, but when used for boiling this not an advantage.

I'm guessing that the guy using a heat stick to compliment his induction is not insulating well or he's just looking for faster times. More is always going to be faster. This hob is only 3500W so bringing large amounts of fluid to a boil can be difficult, but I've been successful at boiling 14-1/2 gallons in my single wall Bayou pot that they claim is 304 stainless.

 

[cheesecake]

Mine is really not insulated and I want faster times it has no problem holding a boil. And I know if I insulated it it would heat a lot faster.

 

[augiedoggy]

My mind isn't made up and if the plate throws a over heat error how is it better? The only other option is to buy a new kettle that is 3 times more expensive then a heat stick.

Now I have a question? Do you brew with a induction cook top?

I do not but I have used them since they are designed to work with cast iron I would have to believe the fault was with the induction top there... I did order 2 of these 3500w induction tops for a friend who plans on using them to make maple syrup and beer and they havve been sitting in the box they shipped in for 2 years due to health and other issues that have delayed thier opening so we havent tested them with different kettles yet.

The induction plates that go into or under a standard non clad kettle should improve performance. I do not think because one person reported an issue with trying them on one induction top that means they dont normally work (Im not doubting his experience but I dont believe its typical.) Induction interface/ diffuser disks wouldnt be made and sold if they caused errors and didnt work right? Many different companies make and sell these and they have a lot of positive reviews by users on amazon. and at around $25 its not exactly going to break the bank.

 

[augiedoggy]

The thread being quoted is mine. The over heating reason for the diffuser plate not work did not show that the plate was helping. It was just the opposite. Induction works well because it transfers the heat directly into the liquid. What the plate did was transfer heat back into the induction hob and cause it to over heat. Useful heat was being lost.

A thin wall pot is actually better at transferring the heat from an induction plate to the liquid. A clad pot will transfer heat over a wider area, but will also lose heat that would have gone into the liquid. The advantage of a clad pot is less chance of scorching when using it for cooking, but when used for boiling this not an advantage.

I'm guessing that the guy using a heat stick to compliment his induction is not insulating well or he's just looking for faster times. More is always going to be faster. This hob is only 3500W so bringing large amounts of fluid to a boil can be difficult, but I've been successful at boiling 14-1/2 gallons in my single wall Bayou pot that they claim is 304 stainless.

so your saying that the heat is not generated by the magnetism of the stainless and is instead generated in the liquid? If that were true you could use an aluminum kettle right? the bayou kettle is almost completely non magnetic therefore how can it be as efficient of a kettle for such a task when every document and manufacturer of these things claims otherwise? The proof is in the scorching directly over the induction disc so many report to one degree or another..

If a thin magnetic disk was set inside of the bayou kettle it would create more intense heat in the same centralized area yes because its working better and a decent induction top should be built to handle that increased heat energy which would be more evenly dispersed and less likely to scorch from how I see it.

To keep it simple, the less magnetic the pot the weaker the induction effect.

 

[cheesecake]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1456267497.929204.jpg


From the link you posted