Will this cheap 3500 watt induction burner work?

[mredge73]

I think this is more than a science project...

Here is an instructable for one:
http://www.instructables.com/id/30-kVA-Induction-Heater/
Shows that for a couple hundred dollars you can make one that can output the same as some $5000 commercial models.

I would like to see about reverse engineering a cook top like on thread title to do this; what would your thoughts be on that? I haven't been able to find anything on how to do this yet but will keep looking.

 

[geoffm33]

OK, someone set my mind at ease. I have seen in this thread that people are using Bayou Classic pots with the Avantco 3500. Is anyone using the Bayou Classic 1044 44 QT Stainless Kettle?

This exact model: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VXHKMC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I have the kettle in my possession, and the IC3500 but haven't had the electrician over to install the proper outlet. So I can't test. I do know that the only thing a magnet will stick to on this pot is the handle

So if anyone is using that exact model, I'd love to hear about it.

Thanks!!

 

[Hello]

OK, someone set my mind at ease. I have seen in this thread that people are using Bayou Classic pots with the Avantco 3500. Is anyone using the Bayou Classic 1044 44 QT Stainless Kettle?

This exact model: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VXHKMC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I have the kettle in my possession, and the IC3500 but haven't had the electrician over to install the proper outlet. So I can't test. I do know that the only thing a magnet will stick to on this pot is the handle

So if anyone is using that exact model, I'd love to hear about it.

Thanks!!

That is super weird and I wonder how it differs from this guy's other than you saved $100.

And I'm not sure but the app shows me quoting you twice. The guy who bought the valved version is schiersteinbrewing in post #169

Couldn't resist, I pulled the trigger and bought one of these cooktops and a Bayou Classic:
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/ava...r-208-240v-3500-watt/177IC3500 208*240.html

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007TVYHXY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Those two with my March pump for wort recirculation should do the trick, for a single vessel BIAB system, to make me one of these :

 

[AnOldUR]

OK, someone set my mind at ease.

I have the same BC pot you linked to except it's the 62 qt option on that page (model 1060 instead of 1044). Strange thing is that a magnet will stick anywhere to mine, but I remember someone posting that a magnet didn't stick to theirs but it still worked with induction. Give it a try.

Guess that didn't ease your mind. :cross:

 

[geoffm33]

Found this which is promising:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/induction-kettles-440383/

Just need the electrician then I can test

 

[Owly055]

Found this which is promising:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/induction-kettles-440383/

Just need the electrician then I can test

I have a drawer full of various adapter cables from one 240 plug design to another. It's a simple matter of buying a male and a female, and wiring them up. It's all pretty simple, and normally doesn't take very heavy wire even. Everything is color coded so you know which two are lines, which neutral (if there is a neutral), and which is ground. It just takes a few minutes. I've never worried about having a 30 amp appliance on a 50 amp breaker, and it has never caused me any trouble at all........ In 50 years of tinkering with electricity. There are all kinds of dire warnings out there, but they really don't apply here. Any outlet you have for 240 will be serviced by a breaker and wiring of more than adequate capacity.

H.W.

 

[geoffm33]

I think it will be fine. Saw this in the QA section of that pots Amazon listing:

Yes this pot works just fine on my induction burner even though the pot is not magnetic at all. I was quite surprised to find this out. I did not buy it with intentions of using it on my induction burner because I have a specific pot just for that but one day I placed it on the burner to see what would happen and it worked perfectly fine.​

Source

 

[Hello]

I think it will be fine. Saw this in the QA section of that pots Amazon listing:

Yes this pot works just fine on my induction burner even though the pot is not magnetic at all. I was quite surprised to find this out. I did not buy it with intentions of using it on my induction burner because I have a specific pot just for that but one day I placed it on the burner to see what would happen and it worked perfectly fine.​

Source

This is good news. I'm unsure if the one with the valve is worth 100 more. I can get the HF step bit and I have a valve lying around. I'm thinking I may do that instead and save myself about $80 after buying the bit.

 

[sumbrewindude]

It's GREAT news. I found a reference over on another home brew site that according to the
"owner" of the Bayou Classic Outlet site, all the pots are induction capable.

I'm going to get the 36qt version, that with the 3500W should keep me busy for quite a while.

 

[67cougargt]

Would someone consider putting a Keggle on and let us know what happens?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[geoffm33]

Would someone consider putting a Keggle on and let us know what happens?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Home Brew mobile app

Not sure how well that would work. The kettle bottom needs to be completely flat against the induction cooktop surface

 

[mredge73]

I got a feeling that the rolled up ring around the bottom would heat up instead of the concave bottom part of the keggle.

 

[singybrue]

I picked up one of these burners and wired it up this weekend.
My stainless Concord 26qt kettle doesn't pass the magnet test, but works fine with this burner.
I put it on the burner empty, because I didn't think it was going to work, and ended up with a nice blue scorch mark on the bottom and a bad smell!
I just did a 4g 60min plain water boil test, and ended up with .5g boiloff.
It was easy to control the heat, and 1500w gave me a nice, easy boil.
:rockin:

 

[Hello]

Well I'm calling electricians to come out and get me wired up. The hope is that it isn't going to cost an arm and a leg.

I was thinking of two cooktops which I assume will only be ran one at a time unless the electricians says I can power both at once. I use my dryer and my stove together so maybe I can. I don't want to blow my panel or my house. Has anyone considered two of these with a pump in between? I would continue to use my cooler as my MT.

 

[AnOldUR]

Has anyone considered two of these with a pump in between? I would continue to use my cooler as my MT.

So, you mean one for HLT and one for boil?

 

[Hello]

So, you mean one for HLT and one for boil?

Yup! What do you think?
I won't be doing more than 5 gallons, which I can lift. I decided since santa brought me a wonderful 15 gallon kettle and burner for Christmas that I would still use that outdoors when I want to do 10 gallons at a time.

 

[AnOldUR]

Yup! What do you think?

My set-up is a 3000W water heater element for HLT and the 3500W induction for boil. So, same power requirements. When I get around to it, I'll wire up another 240V/20amp outlet. For now I unplug my HLT when I begin my first runnings and plug in the induction burner to start heating the wort as it is pumped from the MLT to the kettle. Even in an uninsulated HLT, the sparge water stays at temperature until I'm done.

This is for a batch sparge and goes pretty fast. If you're doing a long continuous sparge you may need to insulate the HLT.



edit: You can boil 12 gallons on this burner, so 10 gallon batches are doable.

Had almost 2 gallons of boil-off yesterday with a 75+ minute boil starting at 12 gallons.
(I say "+" because I don't start the clock until after hot break is well over.)

 

[Hello]

My set-up is a 3000W water heater element for HLT and the 3500W induction for boil. So, same power requirements. When I get around to it, I'll wire up another 240V/20amp outlet. For now I unplug my HLT when I begin my first runnings and plug in the induction burner to start heating the wort as it is pumped from the MLT to the kettle. Even in an uninsulated HLT, the sparge water stays at temperature until I'm done.

This is for a batch sparge and goes pretty fast. If you're doing a long continuous sparge you may need to insulate the HLT.



edit: You can boil 12 gallons on this burner, so 10 gallon batches are doable.

Had almost 2 gallons of boil-off yesterday with a 75+ minute boil starting at 12 gallons.
(I say "+" because I don't start the clock until after hot break is well over.)

Awesome! Thanks for the info. I did know from this thread that I could do 10 gallons but my 15 gallon kettle is 18" in diameter. Not sure that will fly on this cooker. I intended to buy only a 10 gallon boil kettle for this and continue to use my 5 gallon as a HLT for now. The 10 gallon BK will be the HLT when doing 10 gallon batches, if that makes sense.

I don't want to get rid of the 15 gallon kettle and burner yet. It was a generous gift and I'd like to continue to use it. I also considered BIAB for the indoor process.

 

[OG_IBU_Bunghole]

but my 15 gallon kettle is 18" in diameter. Not sure that will fly on this cooker.

What's the biggest diameter we know works on the IC3500?

I'm getting this (almost 16 gallon) kettle which has a 16in diameter
http://www.bru-gear.com/store/p16/ProBoiler(tm)_15i.html

 

[DustBow]

......
I'm going to get the 36qt version, that with the 3500W should keep me busy for quite a while.

Here's a sneak preview for you

 

[sumbrewindude]

Shiney!

 

[Jpartschjr]

So did anyone ever compile a list if pots that work with this? Thinking of using this for my BK and then using a 1500watt hearing element in my 7 gallon kettle for strike/sparge water as that can go in the GFCI i have on my wall.

This will hold me over until i can afford (both time and money) to make a system with pumps.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[geoffm33]

So did anyone ever compile a list if pots that work with this? Thinking of using this for my BK and then using a 1500watt hearing element in my 7 gallon kettle for strike/sparge water as that can go in the GFCI i have on my wall.

This will hold me over until i can afford (both time and money) to make a system with pumps.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

I just created a thread to compile a list of induction burners, kettles, and heat/boil times for various batch sizes.

Anyone that is induction brewing, please have a look and contribute if you want:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/request-induction-equipment-information-465923

 

[Hello]

Well I may be in business. For $300ish, I can get the proper plug installed in my kitchen by a professional. For $100 less, give or take, I can get another one installed in the garage next to the panel. For $600, I can get two installed in the kitchen. I think I will primarily stick to BIAB and only have one plug installed now. Not as cheap as I thought but I do have a second company coming to give an estimate tomorrow. Either way, I'd like to get it done.

 

[AnOldUR]

Doubling the price for two outlets seems strange. Most of the cost is labor and pulling two wires to the same location doesn’t add that much time to the job.

When I did mine I ran 10AWG instead of the 12AWG required for the 20 amp breaker and receptacle. It wasn’t that much more difficult of a job and I have the option to do an easy switch to 30 amps if I decide to upgrade.

 

[DustBow]

Doubling the price for two outlets seems strange. Most of the cost is labor and pulling two wires to the same location doesn’t add that much time to the job.

When I did mine I ran 10AWG instead of the 12AWG required for the 20 amp breaker and receptacle. It wasn’t that much more difficult of a job and I have the option to do an easy switch to 30 amps if I decide to upgrade.

+1

I also ran 10 gauge with the idea that I might make the jump to an elements/PID/controller set up down the road...but the induction cooktop makes everything so much easier (and probably safer) I don't ever see myself changing it. If it ever dies, I'll just buy another.

 

[dwntwnbwn]

Has anyone tried to use this to control the temperature? Say just trying to hold it at 150 degrees. Results?

Googling how these units control the temperature, a few sources state they use Pulse-width modulation, rather than varying the wattage being put out. Basically it assumes some % of time on will result in a set temperature. If that's true then the induction coil electronics can be flicked on and off repeatedly without degradation of the coil. All you would have to do is cut into that signal with one from BCS or Brewtroller to accurately control the temp of a mash.

 

[DustBow]

I have the 3500 version, I tried it on the lowest setting - can't remember if that is 140 or 150 - with recirculating water and the temp kept creeping up higher than I wanted. High 150's.
I have not tried it with a true mash, that would have much more thermal mass and I would think take a lot longer for temps to rise.

As far as "cutting into the signal" - do you mean actually cutting into the guts/wiring of the cooktop? Or plugging it into something like a Ranco/Johnson controller?
The latter would not work because the cooktop resets after power is cut off, so when it comes back "on" from the controller, the cooktop will not actually be firing, it would need to be manually reset after each time the controller cut the power to it.

 

[dwntwnbwn]

I mean going into its guts and cutting a wire. I haven't been able to find a schematic for the cheaper 3000W+ models. However, depending on how complicated its internals are, it could be as simple as locating the signal wire for the relay controlling the coil or you may have to bypass the entire induction controller, which is also a possibility if they can be flicked on and off repeatedly with no damage.

 

[sammy33]

Well I may be in business. For $300ish, I can get the proper plug installed in my kitchen by a professional. For $100 less, give or take, I can get another one installed in the garage next to the panel. For $600, I can get two installed in the kitchen. I think I will primarily stick to BIAB and only have one plug installed now. Not as cheap as I thought but I do have a second company coming to give an estimate tomorrow. Either way, I'd like to get it done.

FYI: That is about the same as what I got quoted...$290 for parts/labor. I would get the one plug installed for now and see how you like it. I am loving my induction brewery so far!

 

[mredge73]

I would estimate $75 per outlet + $1.50 per foot per outlet for parts. Add $50 per hour for labor.
Do this exercise and you will see if you are getting a good deal or not.

 

[Hello]

It's not a stellar deal but it's a professional and I don't think I have the know how. As for double costs for two, I agreed. I've decided on one. The wire will be ran 35' to my panel. I have someone else coming at 9 am to give another quote. I'll go with whomever is lower and who can get it done quicker. I agree that doing one first is indeed a better idea. Thank you all for the input. Now to get the cooktop and kettle.

 

[schiersteinbrewing]

Finally had a chance to brew with my new IC3500 and BayouClassic kettle (uninsulated). All I can say is WOW! Took about 30 min to heat 8.5gal to 153 deg from 70deg, took less than 10 min to rise from 147deg to 168deg, then about 20 min to go from 168 to a full boil. On the max setting the boil was almost leaping out of the kettle (7.5gal in a 10gal kettle). During the mash I tried to use just the lowest setting to help keep mash temps, but even at the lowest setting the temps would rise slowly (3-4 deg over 10min).

 

[Hello]

I bought the cooktop and the 10 gallon bayou classic kettle with valve. I had the second electrical company come and give me an estimate, which I should have today or tomorrow. Unfortunately, it looks like I will sit on the cooktop and kettle for at least a week before I get the plug installed.

Interestingly, and possibly worrying ( to me) is the company that came yesterday were certain they could install 2 plugs, whether they were side by side on separate circuits or one in the garage and one in the house. This company that came today gave a very extensive hands on demonstration why that is not possible without adding a second panel. That also tells me that if I were to go to a full electric brewery, a second panel is necessary. It sounds like it is logical that I can only carry one plug, which means I will definitely do the BIAB (I should be able to do 5 gallons in a 10 gallon kettle unless it's a big beer) indoors. Either way, I did learn that at 3500 watts, the cooktop needs 14 amps. That may be helpful to just about anyone installing the plug. My hope is that this second estimate won't be over the first because they seem like a better company to go with.

A 20 amp plug will be used because that way I'm not at my max with 15 amp. Not to mention, I don't know if 6-20P has a 15 amp option.

I can't wait to try this, I'm very excited. Just another unnecessary and mildly pricey upgrade to my brew kit though. I better go sell my blood now.

 

[mredge73]

You got a pretty good salesman.
You can run one cable 4c10 to power two outlets.($1.50 per foot)
Use 1 double pole 40A breaker ($30)
Two outlets in the same box ($60)
And about 2-3 hours of work. ($150)
$300 is pretty reasonable for 2 outlets if your load is under 30A.

You don't need a second panel unless your current panel is full.
If you current panel is rated at 100A; then just don't brew, cook, and dry your cloths all at the same time.
My advice is to call the first company back up and tell them your load requirements; that you want to feed both plugs from the same circuit and you do not intend to exceed 30A.
Install a 40A breaker so it won't trip if you start both units at the same time. (surge current)
7000W is ~30A at 240VAC; Need 3c10 but 4c10 is recommended to get a neutral and ground to future proof it.
Good luck.

 

[AnOldUR]

Install a 40A breaker so it won't trip if you start both units at the same time. (surge current)

7000W is ~30A at 240VAC; Need 3c10 but 4c10 is recommended to get a neutral and ground to future proof it.
Good luck.

I'm a electric noob. Is 3c10 the same as 10AWG three wire? And if so, can you use a 40 amp breaker with 10AWG wire? I thought 10AWG was only rated for 30 amps.

Also, I didn't think there was a surge current associated with heating elements. I thought that was a motor thing.

 

[brettwasbtd]

Doubling the price for two outlets seems strange. Most of the cost is labor and pulling two wires to the same location doesn’t add that much time to the job.

When I did mine I ran 10AWG instead of the 12AWG required for the 20 amp breaker and receptacle. It wasn’t that much more difficult of a job and I have the option to do an easy switch to 30 amps if I decide to upgrade.

Its 220v so another outlet requires another run of cable and breaker in the the panel. Literally just doubling the materials - copper is expensive now adays

 

[Hello]

You got a pretty good salesman.
You can run one cable 4c10 to power two outlets.($1.50 per foot)
Use 1 double pole 40A breaker ($30)
Two outlets in the same box ($60)
And about 2-3 hours of work. ($150)
$300 is pretty reasonable for 2 outlets if your load is under 30A.

You don't need a second panel unless your current panel is full.
If you current panel is rated at 100A; then just don't brew, cook, and dry your cloths all at the same time.
My advice is to call the first company back up and tell them your load requirements; that you want to feed both plugs from the same circuit and you do not intend to exceed 30A.
Install a 40A breaker so it won't trip if you start both units at the same time. (surge current)
7000W is ~30A at 240VAC; Need 3c10 but 4c10 is recommended to get a neutral and ground to future proof it.
Good luck.

I don't think I'm being sold. It seems as though $300+/- is standard. I have some room on my panel but not enough to add two circuits even if they move things around. It just isn't possible from what I understand.

I also do not want to accidentally turn an oven or dryer on while brewing and blow something. If I could do this myself I would. I am not confident in my electrical skills (0) to really feel as though I should do this. I'll do some plumbing and woodworking, but electrical, I just don't touch short of fan and light installations. What you wrote above basically lost me.

I'm down for someone coming here and telling me what is up without trying to sell me on something. I have beer.

 

[sumbrewindude]

I'd like some clarification for my concept, utilizing the 30A feed for my dryer to another location (I'll be getting a 3500W unit also).

My original plan was to place a conduit box in the joist with a standard dryer plug pigtail (less than 6' length) to plug into the dryer for a physical disconnect when not in service, then run the 3c10 to the entry point of my kitchen cabinets (laundry is below the kitchen, so run is under 20'), follow the existing wires to the cabinet, and then put a metal, single gang box with a single 20A outlet mounted inside the cabinet.

To use the outlet, you'd have to plug in the pigtail to the dryer circuit to apply power to the outlet in the kitchen, then plug the induction top in inside the cabinet.

As the wire/breaker's already rated for 30A to the main, but the plug is 20A, you should never be able to draw over what the breaker/line's rated for. I see lots of folks putting pigtails on 50A spa panels for the GFCI (stacking a 50A on a 30A), so I can't see why (other than a code violation) and underrated plug on circuit would be a bad thing...

Any sparkies have an input?

 

[AnOldUR]

I have some room on my panel but not enough to add two circuits even if they move things around.

They make double breakers that give you two 120V circuits from one slot in your panel. I've installed a few of these to make room for my 240V breakers. It means having to buy new breakers, but way cheaper than a new panel.

We did a renovation a couple of years ago and the electrician installed more of them and the electrical inspector approved it, so it shouldn't be a problem.

I also do not want to accidentally turn an oven or dryer on while brewing and blow something.

How big is your service? The chance that you'll overload your main is very small.