Wild Yeast Question

[Mike Newman]

So... this past weekend I made a cider with some local organic apple juice (no sorbates to kill yeast). Then I got the brilliant idea to add my fresh sage from my garden to the secondary today (without sanitizing).

Well it’s begun another light secondary fermentation (little bubbles along the floating leaves). I have a few questions:


1) Is this possible? i.e. could the yeast from the sage cause a secondary fermentation at such a small quantity (.3 oz of sage)?

2) If so, could i propagate this for future use after racking to keg or would it not be worth it since the cider was more than 75% attenuated?

3) I used Belle Saison which has a pretty good amount of phenolic character, so what I’m wondering is how I’ll be able to tell if the sage yeast made a difference?

4) If I were to make another cider and just use the sage could I possibly ferment the entire batch with wild yeast if I used enough sage in next batch?

5) Has anyone else propagated yeast from other natural sources (apples, pears, raspberries, etc.)??

 

[RPh_Guy]

So... this past weekend I made a cider with some local organic apple juice (no sorbates to kill yeast). Then I got the brilliant idea to add my fresh sage from my garden to the secondary today (without sanitizing).

Well it’s begun another light secondary fermentation (little bubbles along the floating leaves). I have a few questions:


1) Is this possible? i.e. could the yeast from the sage cause a secondary fermentation at such a small quantity (.3 oz of sage)?

2) If so, could i propagate this for future use after racking to keg or would it not be worth it since the cider was more than 75% attenuated?

3) I used Belle Saison which has a pretty good amount of phenolic character, so what I’m wondering is how I’ll be able to tell if the sage yeast made a difference?

4) If I were to make another cider and just use the sage could I possibly ferment the entire batch with wild yeast if I used enough sage in next batch?

5) Has anyone else propagated yeast from other natural sources (apples, pears, raspberries, etc.)??

1. Probably not wild yeast contributing to fermentation. Just nucleation points causing the bubbling. You pitched a huge amount of Belle and gave it a head start. It consumed the nutrients & oxygen and produced alcohol, creating a very hostile environment for the tiny amount of wild yeast.
2. Not worth propagating. See 1.
3. No wild character. See 1.
4. You can absolutely use wild yeast to make cider. It's best to make a starter to increase cell count and make a sensory determination whether the dominant yeast is good. If the cider is unpasteurized you don't need to add any yeast because it already has plenty.
5. In mason jars I maintain a yeast ranch of sour beer dregs and some commercial Brett and mixed cultures. It's pretty simple, just stir & decant 90% of the starter and replace with fresh juice/wort every few months. Build a starter when needed.

 

[Mike Newman]

1. Probably not wild yeast contributing to fermentation. Just nucleation points causing the bubbling. You pitched a huge amount of Belle and gave it a head start. It consumed the nutrients & oxygen and produced alcohol, creating a very hostile environment for the tiny amount of wild yeast.
2. Not worth propagating. See 1.
3. No wild character. See 1.
4. You can absolutely use wild yeast to make cider. It's best to make a starter to increase cell count and make a sensory determination whether the dominant yeast is good. If the cider is unpasteurized you don't need to add any yeast because it already has plenty.
5. In mason jars I maintain a yeast ranch of sour beer dregs and some commercial Brett and mixed cultures. It's pretty simple, just stir & decant 90% of the starter and replace with fresh juice/wort every few months. Build a starter when needed.

Could I technically make a starter and toss in my sage or another wild grown item to propagate enough for a 5 gallon batch? If so how much sage would be a good starting point?

 

[RPh_Guy]

I would dilute juice with chlorine-free water to make about 250mL at ~1.040 and add the sage. Cover with loose-fitting lid or airlock & let it ferment for a couple weeks.
Probably want to step it up to 500-1000mL.

You can use any kind of plant or even just the fresh air outside for a few hours.
The amount shouldn't matter that much. A handful is fine.

If there's mold, toss it and try again (not to be confused with a pellicle).