RPh_Guy
Bringing Sour Back
Use a hydrometer. Airlock activity is a very unreliable way to measure fermentation progress.
Wild Fermented Cider with apples from orchard
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Usually you'll get some foam on the surface and you'll see CO2 bubbles rising (in a glass carboy).
Sequoiacider
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Opening the bucket and looking will not give you any additional info, it will look very similar regardless of weather fermentation has started or not. If fermentation is vigorous then you may see some bubbling and foam when you look at it, but then you will also have lots of airlock activity.
At this point you are on Day 5. I'd say that is a little late, but I wouldn't give up on the wild ferment and pitch yeast just yet. With my wild ferments, I usually start to see slow but observable airlock activity within 2-6 days, with the rate of activity increasing pretty quickly once it starts.
I'd say give another couple days. If you still aren't getting any observable airlock activity at that point, then you should probably pitch yeast. You could wait even longer, but the longer you wait without fermentation taking place, the more likely it is that an infection could take over.
Thanks guys.
Another thing that I'm not sure is important to mention or not, but the lid the brewshop gave me does not seal on top of the bucket. I don't know (or think) this would have any affect on the fermentation, or lack there of.
Another thing that I'm not sure is important to mention or not, but the lid the brewshop gave me does not seal on top of the bucket. I don't know (or think) this would have any affect on the fermentation, or lack there of.
Sequoiacider
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Yeah, that is a fairly important piece of information. If the lid doesn't seal, then the gases created by the fermentation will escape through the edges of the unsealed lid instead of going through the airlock, so you wont see airlock activity even if fermentation is occurring. An unsealed lid can also potentially allow air to enter your fermenter, which you definitely don't want. It is very important that your fermenter be fully sealed off, with the airlock being the only way for gases to escape.
That seems very strange that your brew shop would sell you a fermenter bucket and lid that doesn't seal. Did you buy the bucket and lid separately?
That seems very strange that your brew shop would sell you a fermenter bucket and lid that doesn't seal. Did you buy the bucket and lid separately?
No, same store for both bucket & lid.
Interesting, because what I've read online, mostly regarding brewing beer, has mentioned it's still most likely fine. It's not super loose, but does not seal. One person mentioned the CO2 escaping would prevent any oxygen from getting in...but perhaps you have a different opinion.
Here's one thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/fermenter-lid-wont-seal.252477/
I suppose the best way at this point to check to see if there's some fermentation is to look under the hood, and use the hydrometer?
Interesting, because what I've read online, mostly regarding brewing beer, has mentioned it's still most likely fine. It's not super loose, but does not seal. One person mentioned the CO2 escaping would prevent any oxygen from getting in...but perhaps you have a different opinion.
Here's one thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/fermenter-lid-wont-seal.252477/
I suppose the best way at this point to check to see if there's some fermentation is to look under the hood, and use the hydrometer?
Just checked on my cider. There is definitely fermentation, as there are small bubbles throughout - not a ton, but definitely some action. It also smells a bit...musty.
I suppose the only way for me to know when to rack to secondary is to take specific gravity and see where it's at for a few days?
I suppose the only way for me to know when to rack to secondary is to take specific gravity and see where it's at for a few days?
Sequoiacider
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Yes, as long as fermentation is occurring, then the co2 produced will prevent air ingress, but once fermentation slows down then there is the risk of air getting in. Air will diffuse into the CO2 blanket quite easily if allowed to once the CO2 is no longer continually being refreshed through active fermentation.
You should take a sample and check the gravity to see where your fermentation is at this point and to verify that fermentation has actually begun. This is not a long-term solution. You definitely do not want to be constantly opening your bucket and taking samples. Every time you open the bucket you are mixing some air in with the CO2 blanket. You should definitely take steps to secure your lid. Every brew bucket I have seen in the stores has a lid that seals with the bucket so that the airlock is the only route for air to escape. Are you sure you aren't missing something about the lid?
Will do.
Yes, not sure about the bucket. We tried for a few minutes last Friday to seal it and it was a no-go. I'm going to call the brewshop tomorrow, but a quick search online shows this is not an uncommon issue. I could try to seal with duct tape as temp solution...
Yes, not sure about the bucket. We tried for a few minutes last Friday to seal it and it was a no-go. I'm going to call the brewshop tomorrow, but a quick search online shows this is not an uncommon issue. I could try to seal with duct tape as temp solution...
Blacksmith1
Captain Cheap
An airlock only works if the system is sealed. I have one 2gallon bucket that could be within an inch of boiling over on a one gallon batch and the airlock would be stationary.
Open it and give it a gentle stir, if it's fermenting it will fizz up at least a little.
Open it and give it a gentle stir, if it's fermenting it will fizz up at least a little.
1GallonNoob
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How did the juicing with a juicer go?
I am also brewing my first cider batch, also used a juicer.
The cheap juicer gave a poor yield, and I had to press the pulp through a cloth to get a lot of the juice afterwards.
And the results was very full of solid particles.
Perhaps a slow-juicer is better.
I am also brewing my first cider batch, also used a juicer.
The cheap juicer gave a poor yield, and I had to press the pulp through a cloth to get a lot of the juice afterwards.
And the results was very full of solid particles.
Perhaps a slow-juicer is better.
blasterooni
PIpe line is now well established
I wash my apples by letting them float in a bucket of cold water. I live in the city, and with all of the cars and whatnot spewing crap into the air, I wash them. The water is greyish brown after juicing 40-50 lbs. I am not worried about the microbes as I think its not a bad idea to get some of those into our bodies. I just don't really savor the idea of eating diesel fallout and tire rubber (yeah, super small amounts I'm sure)
gregbathurst
Well-Known Member
Intuitively, that seems reasonable. It seems like a bad idea to consume things lying around in urban areas collecting polluted dust. However research has never supported that concern, people eating unwashed urban fruit don't seem to get sicker than anyone else. Here in Australia plenty of people in urban areas drink water collected from the roof, there has been a little research done and it has never found any health concerns, even though it seems the roofs must collect some pollution.
Finally a valid argument for washing. Wineries don't always juice the vines closest to the highway, depending on the traffic for concerns of off flavors (source: those wineries statingthey don't pick the 1st 1-2 rows next to the highway.) But it's not an easy, all-or-none approach. It depends on how much pollutants are in your area.
My home, I don't usually rinse stuff that grows off of the ground, but I usually rinse things that grow on or in the ground just for the big stuff.
But one of my friends lives near a busy freeway gets a nice black sooty dusting from road/car funk. He washes/rinses most of his tree fruit.
I guess what I am suggesting is that washing should be conditional to the environment in which it is produced rather than defaulting to an absolute binary opinion.
Worth noting that there is going to be pollution within the fruit, as well.
I "rinse" my fruit anyways though.
Admittedly, part of the reason I do is just to get small children feel involved.
"Rinse" means you take a piece of fruit in each hand and shake it underwater for a few seconds, then toss it in the 'clean' pile.
New lid, but still not much activity in the airlock whatsoever. However, taking hydrometer readings, it's showing a decrease so there's definitely some fermentation going on, albeit slowly. Going to continue this route for now, I suppose...!
Hmm, well not sure what we can do at this point. I've read that adding (sanitized) marbles to fill the space is one option.
The other issue I guess I'm seeing is that I don't see any airlock activity, meaning it's probably done fermenting. I'm at about 1.015 -- which means I guess if I bottle I'll have a bit of a sweetness to the cider.
Considering the headspace issue and the lack of fermentation -- would you suggest we bottle ASAP? Would you advise pitching some yeast to move the reading lower before bottling...?
The other issue I guess I'm seeing is that I don't see any airlock activity, meaning it's probably done fermenting. I'm at about 1.015 -- which means I guess if I bottle I'll have a bit of a sweetness to the cider.
Considering the headspace issue and the lack of fermentation -- would you suggest we bottle ASAP? Would you advise pitching some yeast to move the reading lower before bottling...?
1.015 is a long way to go yet. what did it start at?
Don't bottle till it gets near 1.000
blasterooni
PIpe line is now well established
I agree fully, but I do it anyways (psychological benefit perhaps?). I was listening to a podcast featuring an Irish cider maker the other day, and they only use grounders, or windfalls as he called them. No washing, wild ferment,, and no problems
blasterooni
PIpe line is now well established
You could purge the headspace with CO2 if you have a tank
We added some sanitized marbles to the carboys to fill the headspace.
Still just one carboy showing activity in the airlock, though as we added the marbles, there was seemingly more yeast floating up & around in that one. We had discussed trying to mix / combine and redistribute the liquid evenly but that seems like a premature act at this point. It's been a slow-moving process thus far without the use of any additives so we'll reassess in a few days, unless someone here tells us otherwise...
Still just one carboy showing activity in the airlock, though as we added the marbles, there was seemingly more yeast floating up & around in that one. We had discussed trying to mix / combine and redistribute the liquid evenly but that seems like a premature act at this point. It's been a slow-moving process thus far without the use of any additives so we'll reassess in a few days, unless someone here tells us otherwise...
