Wild Cider but Clean

[doublejef]

Hello there,

In my to do list for this year, I would like to make a keeved semi-dry cider.
Most of the keeved cider are wild fermented because it is part a the process to let de yeast slowly start to makes CO2 and lift up the chapeau brun. I know that some use commercial yeast with keeved cider but it need pratctice to achieve.
My problem is I don't really enjoy funk into cider, I prefer it as clean as possible.

So here is the point, how to drive a wil fermentation in order to avoid the horse blanket taste as much as possible?
I read somewhere that a quick rack after the first days of active fermentation would hep but this is a classic step of the keeving process so basically, all the keved cider are quickly racked and they are racked several times after again.
I will sur avoid O2 exposition.
What else could you advise me to do or not do.

 

[Maylar]

Where is it written that wild yeast is funky? The wild ferments that I have done were as clean as any commercial yeast.

 

[gregbathurst]

Yes I agree with Maylar, I never have problems with wild ferments, I don't even use so2.

 

[ifrit2050]

How do you harvest wild yeast? Let sit apple juice in the fermentor and wait that it start to make bubble by itself?

 

[Miraculix]

Apple juice lacks most of the precursors of the molecules that give you the wild and funky flavour. If these are not present, wild yeast cannot produce the funk.

 

[Maylar]

How do you harvest wild yeast? Let sit apple juice in the fermentor and wait that it start to make bubble by itself?

Yep.

 

[Miraculix]

Yep.

Unpasteurizped apple juice!

 

[Maylar]

Yes I agree with Maylar, I never have problems with wild ferments, I don't even use so2.

I think Jolicoeur and Andrew Lee recommend 1/2 dose of sulfite when using wild yeast.

 

[Kees]

Hygiene, clean, fresh, not rotting fruit and minimal O2 environment. Many funky flaour producing bugs need oxygen. Keeving and racking during fermentation both achieve the same: a low nutrient environment in which yeasts are unable to ferment all sugars.

 

[doublejef]

Well thank you all for your answer.
I'm quite surprising to see that you don't think wild ferment bring the funk because all the wild fermented cider I ever tasted in my live was somewhere funk, in a large range between little to very funk but still funk. At the opposite, a cider fermented with commercial yeast won’t be funky at all, excepted if there is Brettanomyces in the culture of yeast, but I never heard about this use.

Most of the old school cider maker in Normandy never use SO2 at all so the juice comes into fermenter with all the bugs and yeast from the apple skin but also from the material (press, pump,…) and they obviously bring Brettanomyces in the package. And the cider from Normandy are generally pretty funky, not acetic at all but you can taste the farm into every sip.

Anyway, I’m happy to hear that a clean equipment and a fight again O2 will give me more chance to avoid funk character in my cider and I will try my best to do so.

 

[Kees]

There is a reason why most commercial cider makers use SO2. To avoid funkiness because most byers want a clean cider. Funkiness will by many be associated with mold, rot, uncleanliness &c.

When you watch footage of cider production in Normandy you will see that many apples have rotten spots: hotspots of funkiness. Reject those apples or cut the rotten part out. Jolicoeur recommends keeping your cider cool as soon as fermentation has ended. Below 15 C.

Most cider books have a list of measures you can take to avoid cider going off.

 

[Maylar]

At the opposite, a cider fermented with commercial yeast won’t be funky at all, excepted if there is Brettanomyces in the culture of yeast, but I never heard about this use.

It isn't the wild yeast that brings the funk, it's the Brett. A half dose of sulfite will prevent that.

 

[gregbathurst]

I have drunk a lot of French cider, Norman and Breton, and it is usually perfectly clean with no trace of barnyard. Some small producers like to make cider with funk but the vast majority of large producers want their cider to be perfectly clean. The amount of wine and cider produced around the world each year without cultured yeast is very large. most of it free of off flavours. Off flavours are more likely due to the quality of the fruit or the production methods.