Why why why why

[typebrad]

I am almost always ending up with a lower gravity than my recipes claim they'll be.

How sensitive are hydrometers to temp when we're talking just a few degrees?

Would a 77° read give me a false?

I mean, my final beer is not as big as it's ever supposed to be.

Someone help!


/Will always still be figuring it out/

 

[Rockn_M]

There are hydrometer calculators that can adjust for temps. You can also calculate efficiency and adjust your grain bill to account for the lower gravity. Another Orion is to make sure you have a good milled grain to help with efficiency and OG.


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[DonH]

proper boil off rate? maybee its not as high as you imagine and you have a thin wort. It was a problem of mine until I re-calibrated my boil off rate. Also the grain crush.

 

[HumulusHead]

77 degrees makes a bit of a difference when most recipes give a OG at the standard temp of 60 degrees. Can't remember how much off the top my head tho


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[HumulusHead]

.02, so not as significant as I may have made it sound


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[heckler73]

http://www.brewersfriend.com/hydrometer-temp/

likely not your problem.

 

[heckler73]

mind you, if your hydro is cracked and filling with water, it'll sit low.

 

[Colorowdy]

If you are doing partial boils you wort may not be mixed well enough.

 

[Northbanu]

All grain or extract?
If extract, are you doing full or partial boils?
If all grain are you getting correct gravity reading before the boil?
Extract or all grain, are your beginning and final boil volumes correct?

 

[IslandLizard]

This is in the extract forum, so crush can't be much of the culprit, except for your steeping grains. They should be pretty fine with as little flour as possible. They'll give you mostly flavor plus a few points of gravity, say 40 points.

The best part of extract is you know exactly how many points of gravity you have in your wort by sheer weight of your LME/DME extract (say 260 points) plus your steeped grain gravity (+40 = 300 total). Then divide that by your final volume (say 5 gallons) and you get your points per gallon (300 / 5 = 60), making your gravity 1.060. Your hydrometer should give you something close to that.

Do you add top up water? Incomplete mixing of that with the heavier wort underneath will give you false hydro readings.

How much wort remains in your kettle? If that's a significant amount, you'll lose those gravity points and come up short in the fermentor.

 

[Northbanu]

Sheesh, I'm a dummy. I should look at what forum I'm replying in I guess.

+1 To everything IslandLizard said.

 

[IslandLizard]

Sheesh, I'm a dummy. I should look at what forum I'm replying in I guess.

+1 To everything IslandLizard said.

No, no dummy. Strange enough I started my response similar to yours... then I looked up to check the OP. Oh, extract forum... > erase ... > retype.

 

[typebrad]

Steeped grains, extract (both liquid and dry, I don't discriminate) and about a gallon an hour boil-off rate. I'm right at 212°-214°.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

 

[typebrad]

Full boils. Was doing partials for a bit, then got a larger kettle.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

 

[Heavywalker]

What is the efficiency that you are calculating your steeping grains at?

 

[typebrad]

What is the efficiency that you are calculating your steeping grains at?

You are speaking a language I don't understand yet. Do you mean, am I maintaining temp while steeping? The last steep dropped only 10 degrees over 45 minutes.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

 

[Rockn_M]

You are speaking a language I don't understand yet. Do you mean, am I maintaining temp while steeping? The last steep dropped only 10 degrees over 45 minutes.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

What is the temperature you are steeping?

 

[stpug]

Give us an example of a recipe, it's volumes, and it's gravities that didn't meet your expectations. Maybe the answer can be gleened from that.

 

[Yooper]

Have you measured your volume after making the wort? It just sounds like you have more than 5 gallons in the fermenter, which will reduce the OG from what the recipe states, assuming you're making a 5 gallon batch.

 

[typebrad]

What is the temperature you are steeping?

The beer I mentioned in the last post, to keep things consistent, 151°

I will put a couple recipes up later. And I hate the ol' "just add more DME or LME nonsense," because then my beer just tastes fake, regardless of hop utilization.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

 

[typebrad]

Have you measured your volume after making the wort? It just sounds like you have more than 5 gallons in the fermenter, which will reduce the OG from what the recipe states, assuming you're making a 5 gallon batch.

I've nailed the last two brews pretty well. My kettle has gallon markers. Right at 5. And the 5 gal lines I have drawn on my carboys match up.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

 

[GrogNerd]

with extract, you can be sure that, as long as your volume is correct, your gravity is what the recipe says it should be. it's just not possible to get any less sugar out of extract, the only way to have a different OG is to have more or less water

there is also a problem called "stratification". it is when the heavier extract sinks to the bottom and you take the reading from the top, where there is more water.

mix your wort better, or RDWHAHB.

when I do extract batches, I don't even bother with an OG reading

 

[Heavywalker]

You are speaking a language I don't understand yet. Do you mean, am I maintaining temp while steeping? The last steep dropped only 10 degrees over 45 minutes.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

What I am asking is how much efficiency you are getting from your steeping grains. Or another way how much sugar are you extracting from the steeping grains vs how much is in them.

For example if you steep 1 lb of crystal 40 in 5 gallons of water, you will extract a certain amount of sugar from the grains.

If you just measure the gravity after steeping and before any LME or DME is added you will have a gravity reading above 1.00.

At 100% efficiency you would have an OG of 1.007
At 80% your OG would be 1.005
50% 1.003
30% 1.002

Most estimates are anywhere from 30% to 50% on steeping grains, so if you have your expected efficiency set at a higher level when calculating a recipe you will get a lower OG than expected by a couple of points.

Not sure this would account for the readings you are talking about but could be a factor. I am assuming you are talking about a difference of 0.002 not 0.02 which is the equivalent of about a 2.4 lbs of DME

 

[typebrad]

Let's use these two clones as examples, because they're simple, and both OG read exactly one full point under what they should have been.

WIDMER BROTHERS PALE ALE
1 lb. 2 oz. Coopers DME
3.3 lb. Muntons Light LME
0.5 lb. Vienna Malt
1.0 lb. Munich Malt
1.5 lb. Crystal 40 °L
0.25 lb. Dextrin Malt
0.38 oz. Willamette
3.25 oz. Cascade
0.31 oz. Centennial
Wyeast 1056
----------------------------
SIERRA NEVADA PALE ALE
1 lb., 6 oz. 2-row pale malt
10 oz. crystal maly 60 °L
2.5 lbs Briess Light DME
4.0 lbs. Light LME (late addition)
0.18 oz. Magnum hops (60 min.)
0.7 oz. Perle hops (60 min.)
1.0 oz. Cascade hops (15 min.)
0.75 oz. Cascade hops (0 min.)
1 oz. Cascade dry hop
6 oz. priming sugar

Now rather than putting every detail of each recipe up, ask about my method and maybe you can help me.

Both of these should have had an OG of about 1.050-1.053 and both instead had like a 1.042-1.046



/Will always still be figuring it out/

 

[Heavywalker]

When I put in your recipe for the Widmer Bros Pale Ale I get a gravity of 1.042 using 50% efficiency which is about maxed out for what you get out of steeping grains.

For the SNPA for I am getting an OG of 1.049 accounting for the extract only, so something is not right there. Taking into account all your fermentables figuring the same 50% for steeping grains I get an OG of 1.056

How are you calculating what your OG should be?

 

[typebrad]

I am reading what it should be at the bottom of the recipe. In other words, I'm not doing the calculations.

This was the process for the Sierra Nevada Pale:

In a large soup pot, heat 3.0 qts. of water to 161°F. Add crushed grains to grain bag. Submerge bag and let steep at around 154°F for 45 minutes.

While grains steep, begin heating 2.4 gal. of water in brew pot.

When steep is over, remove 0.83 qts. of water from brew pot and add to the "grain tea" in steeping pot.

Place colander over brewpot and place steeping bag in it. Pour grain tea over bag and into brew pot through colander to strain out grain bits and sugars.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

 

[Yooper]

The beer I mentioned in the last post, to keep things consistent, 151°

I will put a couple recipes up later. And I hate the ol' "just add more DME or LME nonsense," because then my beer just tastes fake, regardless of hop utilization.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

I don't understand why adding more extract, to get the SG desired, would make the beer taste fake, or impact hops utilization (it doesn't)?

 

[Heavywalker]

The only other thing I can think of is you are not really adding the amount of extract that you think you are. If your water volumes are correct and then you should hit your OG as long as you are adding the correct amount of extract, even if steeping efficiency is off it should make that much of a difference.

Do you weigh your extract yourself before you use it or do you just trust whoever did the packing. I always weigh it out myself and have found that the amount claimed are not always accurate.

 

[stpug]

WIDMER BROTHERS PALE ALE
1 lb. 2 oz. Coopers DME
3.3 lb. Muntons Light LME
0.5 lb. Vienna Malt
1.0 lb. Munich Malt
1.5 lb. Crystal 40 °L
0.25 lb. Dextrin Malt

Both of these should have had an OG of about 1.050-1.053 and both instead had like a 1.042-1.046

BeerSmith tells me that as an "extract" 5 gallon batch that this should yield an OG of 1.030, and as a "partial mash" 5 gallon batch that this should yield an OG of 1.044.

Unless I've assumed the wrong batch volume for your batches I would say you're getting the original gravity you should be and that your literature is incorrect.

 

[typebrad]

The only other thing I can think of is you are not really adding the amount of extract that you think you are. If your water volumes are correct and then you should hit your OG as long as you are adding the correct amount of extract, even if steeping efficiency is off it should make that much of a difference.



Do you weigh your extract yourself before you use it or do you just trust whoever did the packing. I always weigh it out myself and have found that the amount claimed are not always accurate.

Sometimes I'm weighing my ingredients, sometimes I trust my fave local shop. They all must be high doh, 'cuz they can't weigh hops to save their lives.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

 

[typebrad]

This was the grains process for the Widmer.




/Will always still be figuring it out/

 

[typebrad]

I mean, I'm brewing all of these from the BYO 250 Classic Clone Recipes issue. How can they have their gravities wrong consistently? In multiple recipes. Sounds like you guys need to correct all of these recipes. And I need to learn how to calculate this stuff! Just bought the Beer Alchemy app.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

 

[Yooper]

I mean, I'm brewing all of these from the BYO 250 Classic Clone Recipes issue. How can they have their gravities wrong consistently? In multiple recipes. Sounds like you guys need to correct all of these recipes. And I need to learn how to calculate this stuff! Just bought the Beer Alchemy app.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

I have no idea! That's why I wondered how accurate your gallon markings were in your fermenter- that tends to be the issue when a SG reading is wrong, that there is more liquid than the 5 gallons in the carboy. If you've actually checked it over and measured it yourself, I'm at a loss.

 

[tektonjp]

deleted

 

[flars]

I've nailed the last two brews pretty well. My kettle has gallon markers. Right at 5. And the 5 gal lines I have drawn on my carboys match up.


/Will always still be figuring it out/

Did you add the gallon marks to the kettle or was it the manufacturer? If it was the manufacturer have you checked the markings for accuracy? Reason for the question is buckets marked by the manufacturer can often be off.

Did you mark your carboys by pouring in an exact, or really close, 5 gallons of water?

Do you check the calibration of your hydrometer before each brew? The card inside can slip back and forth.

 

[peterj]

You're not actually doing a steep, you're partial mashing. I think it's pretty obvious that your just not getting as good efficiency from your partial mash as what the recipe is predicting. It's got nothing to do with the extract or water volumes (since you said these are all ending up correct, then that will be exactly as the recipe predicts).

This drop in mash efficiency could result from a number of different things. I would first make sure you're getting a good crush. But an easy way to fix it without changing anything is to add more base malt to your partial mash. Or add a little bit more extract. It won't give you any more of a "fake" taste then the extract that's already in there (which I don't think should give a "fake" taste).