Why no love for bleach?

[JONNYROTTEN]

I had an infection scare and was thinking of doing a nuclear bleach bomb on all my plastics.After doing some looking around I came across a lot of "bleach will never touch my equipment".Others of course have done it.This time of the year I can simply stick the equipment in the sun and no more bleach.I star san all my stuff before every brew day but my plastics are getting old and 24 bleach bomb couldn't hurt.Nothing to back it up but I'm thinking a super potent bleach soak might get in there a little deeper than Star san.Wondering why many dismiss bleach when it kills everything,is cheap, and dissipates naturally?

 

[invictusbrew]

Starsan is just a sanitizer - use something like PBW to clean your buckets. Bleach CAN be used and CAN be safe if you rinse the ever living carp out of your buckets when done to ensure there is NO remnants of bleach left, but why chance it when there are other products on the market that work just as well and are meant to be food safe?

 

[broadbill]

Way back when in the homebrewing dark ages all we had was bleach for sanitizer; we all used it back then and you can use it now. Nowadays, its just starsan is so much easier and works just as well for the application.

Now for a bleach bomb, that is a different story; my assumption is that you wouldn't be doing this every single time.

 

[m00ps]

same reason why you dont wash your hands with bleach after using the bathroom or something. There are much better options out there

 

[broadbill]

same reason why you dont wash your hands with bleach after using the bathroom or something. There are much better options out there

False equivalency.

The idea behind a bleach bomb is to immerse all of your equipment to make sure you kill off any spoilage organisms hiding in the nooks/crannies of the equipment. Given the volume needed to do this it may be cheaper to use bleach (and rinse well); than to use that much StarSan.

 

[Yooper]

I use bleach every once in a while on my fermenters, not too often.

I have also used it on bottles that were returned to me that were disgusting.

If you rinse very well, so that no odor of bleach remains, it's fine on both plastic and glass.

 

[Jim311]

Bleach rules and I use it exclusively but it's a pretty unpopular opinion. Some people hate stuff that's cheap and works. My method is opposed most vehemently by people who have never tried it or people who used way too strong of a dilution. If you use 15ML bleach per 1 gallon water it is entirely a "no rinse" dilution. I take care to try and drip dry my fermenter and gear to minimize the amount I expose my beer to. I fully admit there are better sanitizers from an ease of use standpoint, but I have literally never have an infection because I can afford to fill the entire 7 gallon fermenter with a bleach dilution every time I use it! All of my gear gets soaked for extended periods. Using sprayed on Star San solutions doesn't give great coverage and has very small amounts of contact time the way most people are using it, which IMO makes them more prone to infections than soaking their stuff. Some crucial things to note is that you *technically* need an hour soaking time, though this is a rule I have frequently overlooked. Also, it will give some vinyl tubing a cloudy coloration if you soak it too long, and it's corrosive to stainless or steel fittings in long soaks (multiple days in duration). You need to use STANDARD bleach not the double strength extra concentrated stuff. A little goes a very very long way.

 

[Homercidal]

The fear of bleach comes from it's misuse. A lot of people make a VERY strong solution of it. That is not required.

I would have to research the recipe, but I believe that the owner of Five-Star Chemicals, the maker of Star-San, has recommended Bleach. IIRC he recommended adding a small amount of acid to the bleach mixture to form a no-rinse sanitizer. The amount was something like 1 TBSP bleach per 5 gallons of water. Can't recall the amount of acid.

Note that this is a no-rinse solution, so he is recommending actually leaving the product on the equipment. The dilution of bleach to water is small, and the amount being added to 5 gallons of wort is VERY small.

In the OP's case I would not hesitate to use a strong bleach solution, but I would research using it combined with an acid (safely) to improve it's effectiveness, as per the owner of Five Star Chemical's recommendation.

Afterward, I'd air the equipment out completely and then continue to use the sanitizer I've been using all along.

Cleaning your equipment is as important as sanitizing it. Make sure to get in all the nooks and crannies, and that includes spigots, airlocks, threads, rims, etc. If there is any crud in there, the bacteria can effectively hide from the sanitizer, only to emerge later in the beer.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

The responses are my feelings also.If it works why not use it.Plastic is cheap but if I can make it like new again why not.Ive throw away more than a few buckets thinking If it gets a scratch its a goner.If the bacteria have a path to the nooks and crannies so does the bleach to kill it...I'm bleach bombin the crap out of my stuff and see where it gets me.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

same reason why you dont wash your hands with bleach after using the bathroom or something. There are much better options out there

I eat chicken wings too,doesnt mean I'm stickin my hand in the deep fryer

 

[lump42]

I would be careful with soaking the plastics in a strong solution too many times, especially the soft plastics. Bleach will start to degrade the plastics and cause it to start cracking. The problem would then be exasperated with more cracks for bacteria and dirt to hide. I would use a strong solution (~20%) but I wouldn't go much higher than that. It would be a waste in bleach and put undue stress on the plastics. We use 20% bleach in the lab when we want to sanitize non-autoclavable items (ie sprayers) between experiments.

 

[Shockerengr]

Bleach has a place, but you've got to be careful with it as it can degrade equipment if left on to long without dilution or applied to strong.

The chlorine will react with metals and some plastics and rubbers. Pinholes and leaks in stainless are often the result of chlorine exposure.

Chlorine can also react with yeast-derived phenols to produce chlorophenols which produced the 'band-aid' off flavors.

Used properly, it can be a great sanitizer, but there are other options that are more forgiving of errors.

I've used it rarely, and it's been useful, but it's far from a goto for me.

 

[Photopilot]

Because I like the color of my clothes just the way they are. Every time I use bleach I ruin some clothes. There are other options less destructive.

 

[agrazela]

same reason why you dont wash your hands with bleach after using the bathroom or something. There are much better options out there

My mom used to force me to soak my stinky athlete's feet in bleach solution because we were so poor we had to pass our shoes down through four brothers and I was a grubby, filthy child who refused to wash myself.

If I ever have to plead insanity for something, I'm using that. :rockin:

 

[Jim311]

Because I like the color of my clothes just the way they are. Every time I use bleach I ruin some clothes. There are other options less destructive.

Spill some Iodophor or Star San and see what it makes your clothes look like! Any of these concentrated cleaners will wreck your clothes, counter tops, etc.


There is lots of talk in here of "mistakes" but what's so hard about putting 15ml of bleach in a gallon of water? We're brewing beer here, we'd better be able to measure things correctly.

 

[Photopilot]

Spill some Iodophor or Star San and see what it makes your clothes look like! Any of these concentrated cleaners will wreck your clothes, counter tops, etc.

I used plenty of bleach back in the day. The problem with bleach is it is even in its diluted form it has the ability to ruin clothes, etch metal and other fouls. The other things you mention have never caused any of the issues for me. Maybe because they are more concentrated and come in smaller neater packages, I tend not to get it on me. While bleach is cheap, so is unscented Oxyclean compared to replacing a shirt.

Whome am I kidding, I am still going to wear the shirt but be pissed at myself everytime i do for using bleach that day.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I was under the impression oxiclean is for cleaning not sanitizing.

 

[Photopilot]

I was under the impression oxiclean is for cleaning not sanitizing.

They go hand in hand. I don't think you can sanitize something that is not clean. Bleach is one thing you can use for both. I am assuming if you have an infection issue cleanliness should be your primary concern. If your vessels are clean a splash of any sanitizer should do the trick.

I use a variety of different cleaners, not for any particular reason just because I have them around. But Star-san is my go to sanitizer. I ordered a small container about a decade ago and the mail order company sent me a big one instead. I am about half-way done with it.

The one exception to this is if I had a recurring sanitation problem. I would consider going over the entire brew area and all my equipment once to try to kill off whatever is ruining my beer from the premises.

In responding to this thread I realize why I hate bleach so much. One of my favorite kilts has a stain on it that I am pretty sure is from bleach. I'll never forgive the evil substance.

 

[MrPowers]

In my opinion, a strong bleach solution is the only solution to a stubborn krausen ring stuck on the inside of a glass carboy. Scrubbing can only do so much, but bleach will get that carboy spotless.

Of course, after I bleach my carboys, I then rinse them until there is no odor, and go back to sanitizing with star san.

 

[Yooper]

Because I like the color of my clothes just the way they are. Every time I use bleach I ruin some clothes. There are other options less destructive.

I know I've shared this story before but it fits here............

I was brewing one day and noticed that my one fermenter (plastic) didn't look as pristine as I like. I decided to give it bleach/water bath while I was waiting for my wort to boil.

But then I realized I loved the clothes I was wearing, so I took them off so I wouldn't accidentally get bleach on them.

I cleaned the fermenter and rinsed it well, but nearly got a boil over so was over at my brewstand, stirring my wort, when my husband walked in the brewery. He looked at me, sort of puzzled.

I said, "Oh! I guess you must be wondering why I'm brewing stark naked!"

Knowing me so well after all these years, He shrugged and said, "No, not really" and walked away.

Later that day, after the final clean up, I asked him if he wanted to know why I was totally naked while I was brewing. I explained about the cleaning with bleach, and he didn't act like it was weird to have your wife brewing 11 gallons of IPA totally naked.

 

[WI_Wino]

Back when I first started brewing my good friend and roommate at the time convinced me we should sanitize the bottles in the bath tub. 1 CUP of bleach per 10 gallons of water or something ridiculous like that. Our GI tracks took a beating with with that batch of beer.

 

[Jim311]

i know i've shared this story before but it fits here............

I was brewing one day and noticed that my one fermenter (plastic) didn't look as pristine as i like. I decided to give it bleach/water bath while i was waiting for my wort to boil.

But then i realized i loved the clothes i was wearing, so i took them off so i wouldn't accidentally get bleach on them.

I cleaned the fermenter and rinsed it well, but nearly got a boil over so was over at my brewstand, stirring my wort, when my husband walked in the brewery. He looked at me, sort of puzzled.

I said, "oh! I guess you must be wondering why i'm brewing stark naked!"

knowing me so well after all these years, he shrugged and said, "no, not really" and walked away.

Later that day, after the final clean up, i asked him if he wanted to know why i was totally naked while i was brewing. I explained about the cleaning with bleach, and he didn't act like it was weird to have your wife brewing 11 gallons of ipa totally naked.

:d

 

[Beerthoven]

A gallon of bleach is cheap but Star San is too when used properly.

A 16 oz jug of StarSan costs $16.95 at my LHBS, which is $1.06 per ounce.

The directions are to mix 1 ounce of Star San in 5 gallons of water. I keep this solution in a bucket and it is good for 3 months before needing to be changed. That's a cost of only $4.24 per year for sanitation.

 

[Jim311]

That's where the cost of Star-San becomes a little more blurred, because you can't keep a bleach solution on hand nearly as long. My understanding of bleach solutions is that they need to be used within 24 hours as the chlorine eventually degrades, or maybe leaves in the form of gas? But considering that one ounce treats 10 gallons and bleach costs roughly 1 to 2 dollars a gallon, it still blows Star-San out of the water. It's up to you to decide whether the convenience is worth it to you, and frankly a few bucks for Star-San is a drop in the bucket in the scheme of things. If you want to use it, it's obviously superior in virtually every way other than price and ease of availability.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I'm going to try a potent bleach bomb for an hour or two just to make myself feel better.Zap the crap out of everything.No concern for my cloths,Ill wear my work cloths.

 

[bendog15]

You're talking about two different things, cleaning and sanitizing. Both are necessary steps for your equipment. Bleach can be used for cleaning, you just have to rinse the heck out of it afterwards. That's a lot of water waste. I use oxyclean. It's still cheap and does the job well.
After your equipment is clean, then you sanitize. That's where star san comes into play. Fill up a bottle and spray down your equipment to minimalize usage.
It does you no good to sanitize dirty equipment, and vice versa. All I've ever used is oxyclean and star san, and never had a problem or infection.

 

[k1ngl1ves]

In my opinion, a strong bleach solution is the only solution to a stubborn krausen ring stuck on the inside of a glass carboy. Scrubbing can only do so much, but bleach will get that carboy spotless.

Of course, after I bleach my carboys, I then rinse them until there is no odor, and go back to sanitizing with star san.

Give vinegar a try. It's bleach's big brother when it comes to crud...

 

[MrPowers]

Give vinegar a try. It's bleach's big brother when it comes to crud...

I have actually used vinegar to clean out burned in crap in the bottom of my brew kettles. It worked well too.

 

[Jim311]

Vinegar is acetic acid. Another product good for stuck on burnt crud is barkeepers friend, which is oxalic acid. What really kicks the hell out of krausen is powdered brew wash. It rips that stuff off like it's not even there. It's expensive so I use it sparingly, but it's worth the money for tough stuff.

 

[Photopilot]

Bleach can be used for cleaning, you just have to rinse the heck out of it afterwards. That's a lot of water waste. I use oxyclean. It's still cheap and does the job well.

To me this is the crux of why Bleach is not an alternative. It is extremely wasteful. Growing up in California during the big drought, the other big drought water conservation has been drilled into my head from an early age. In my brewing process I'd estimate 90% of the water used makes it into my beer, garden or laundry.

The moment bleach enters the water it becomes useless for reuse and you have to rinse thoroughly afterwards. I have a keg and carboy cleaner I use to clean all my equipment. I only break it out when I have multiple vessels needing cleaned. I'd guess it takes less than 5 gallons to clean and rinse 5 or more vessels. For cleaning a small number of vessels I use Oxyclean and a drill attached spinning thing I got locally for $10. These two handle carboy crud easily.