Why is my IPA so bitter?

[homer383]

Hi,
recently I brewed an "IPA" using following ingredients and amounts (I am from EU, so I will convert the units to gal/lb):

Batch size: 6.34 gal
OG: 1.059
FG: 1.014

Ingredients:
11.2lb Pale Ale LME
1.76 oz Premiant (8.46%AA) @ 60min
1.94 oz Centennial (11.2%AA) @ 10min
1.59 oz Centennial (11.2%AA) @ 3 days Dry Hop

The beer is very bitter and the bitterness is not tasty. It is drinkable, but I am disappointed because I made the same beer, but from Pilsen extract some months ago and it was very good. I doubt Pale Ale vs Pilsen would do the change in the bitterness.
Any ideas what could cause the over-bitterness?

 

[nobadays]

NOTE: Had the time wrong on the first addition... IBUs with corrected time = 58.8 - still not high.

I plugged your recipe into Brewtarget and came up with 34.3 IBUs... not really bitter at all for an IPA. Style guidelines show IPAs at 40-70 IBus (many run way higher these days.)

I'm wondering when you are tasting... right out of the fermenter or has it been bottled already. The reason I ask is that when taking SG readings from my fermenter I find the beer is usually always bitterer than the finished product.

Cheers!

 

[crusader1612]

1.76oz at 60mn is a big addition, on top of your big late addition (@10min

forthe 1.059 gravity, which in theory would be really dry tasting, theres not alot behind it to support the big bittering addition, so it could be perceived higher.

if you do it again
drop you 60min to 1oz
and move your 10 min addition to 0min then dryhop the crap out of it. and it should be better.

but make sure your hops are in good condition, if they're old they lose their aroma slightly and can appear grassy or cheesy, and overly bitter.

also look at your fermentation practises and yeast pitching rates, if you end up with things like diacetyl etc the beer can be a little too bitter tasting as the aroma has fallen away behind the diacetyl (think butterscotch candy buttered popcorn or if its minor just overly caramelised/sweet)

once you get this stuff under control it should improve.

 

[IchLiebeBier]

Did you change the water source or fool with the water chemistry in any way? I think higher levels of sulfate in ratio to chlorides will enhance bitterness.

Other than that, maybe you made a mistake on a hop addition?

 

[nobadays]

I looked again at Brewtarget... noticed a mistake. Corrected the above post.

NOTE: Had the time wrong on the first addition... IBUs with corrected time = 58.8 - still not high.

Cheers!

 

[homer383]

I forgot to mention I used Dannstar Notingham Ale yeast, 2 packs (2x11g). Fermentation was only primary, 3 weeks @ 18 degrees Celsius. I am tasting the beer after 1 week after bottling. I usually taste 1 bottle after 1 week to check if the result is "drinkable"

I use a tap water - so it should be constant quality, but nobody knows... I remember my starts with home brewing - I used tap water, but I filtered it via kitchen filter which I use for softening of the water for my coffee machine. Later I started to use pure non filtered tap water and had also good results.

Regarding hops - I can't guarantee it is fresh but these hops were bought in eshop I commonly buy in, then I kept it for ~3 months in the fridge.

 

[okiepc]

Just me, but I won't touch an IPA until 3 weeks in the bottle, some times longer.

 

[crusader1612]

Just me, but I won't touch an IPA until 3 weeks in the bottle, some times longer.

why?!
these beers are to be drunk fresh, and while they can be a little green to start with, they're still delicilous.
the longeryou waithe less hoppy they become

 

[Stillraining]

Whats strange is you said it was good with extract. I guess we would need to know how much?
Regardless... Id say make 1.oz @ 30 min your first bittering addition if you dont like in your face bitterness. And still target your 50 IBU finish with other very late and seeping/whirlpool additions. We target about 1oz per gallon overall including dry hop and it works well.

Just remember your bittering additions are still bittering during the steep/whirlpool so figure time/amounts accordingly.

 

[RM-MN]

Hi,
recently I brewed an "IPA" using following ingredients and amounts (I am from EU, so I will convert the units to gal/lb):

Batch size: 6.34 gal
OG: 1.059
FG: 1.014

Ingredients:
11.2lb Pale Ale LME
1.76 oz Premiant (8.46%AA) @ 60min
1.94 oz Centennial (11.2%AA) @ 10min
1.59 oz Centennial (11.2%AA) @ 3 days Dry Hop

The beer is very bitter and the bitterness is not tasty. It is drinkable, but I am disappointed because I made the same beer, but from Pilsen extract some months ago and it was very good. I doubt Pale Ale vs Pilsen would do the change in the bitterness.
Any ideas what could cause the over-bitterness?

Wild guess? It's spring and it is taking a little longer to chill your wort. That 1.94 oz at 10 minutes continues to add bitterness until the wort cools below ~175F. If your chiller took an extra 10 minutes to cool the wort, bearing in mind that 90% of the bittering happens within the first 30 minutes, you have a lot more bittering in this batch than calculated.

 

[mrdauber64]

Could the bitterness you are tasting actually be a carbonic bite from bottle conditioning? How was the carbonation? I know when I taste a beer that has too much carbonation I get a harsh taste that I could see being perceived as being too bitter.

 

[dyqik]

Do you do anything to treat the tap water?

Water companies often up the chloramine/chlorine in spring to help clean the pipes out, and you may be getting higher levels of chloraphenols in the resulting beer, enough to start to taste them.

Tap water also often changes composition in spring if there is snow-melt water feeding the wells and aquifers.

 

[homer383]

Regarding cooling - I use a stainless steel pipe submerged into the wort and I cool it from cold tap water. It is cooled from 212 F to 64 F in ~20-30 minutes. I did the same cooling procedure couple of times and I had no issues with the over bitterness.

I thin this kind of bitterness is not cause by the carbonation. I used 3g of dextrose per 1 bottle (0.5L) and this is my common amount.

I do not know how exactly should I describe the bitterness, but it is not felt in the first moment, but its strength is increased once you swallowed the beer. And the same bitterness was present in the sample when I did bottling (no carbonation yet, just what was in the beer after 3 weeks of fermentation).

I will have to experiment a bit in the future to find the root cause, maybe tuning the recipe a bit like it was advised here. Also I could come back to filtering the tap water so I will remove chlorine and some other minerals.

 

[dyqik]

A late arriving mild astringency/bitterness might well be chlorine in water related, at a lower level than the full "sticking plaster" or "Band-Aid" taste you get that makes it clearly distinguishable.

Filtering may not be sufficient to remove chloramine from the water - you should be able to find out how your water supplier treats the water from their webpages/water quality reports. There's also a fair chance that looking at that data might also tell you if the water changes seasonally. The best way to guarantee removal of chlorine is to add quarter to half of a Campden tablet (or about 0.05g of sodium or potassium metabisulfite), and check to see if any smell of chlorine from the water has gone once it has dissolved. You can get Campden tablets or metabisulfite from wine or home brewing stores.

 

[Redlantern]

as a question - was it a hopped LME?

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

as a question - was it a hopped LME?

Follow-up to Redlanetern's question: How old was the LME? I've noticed that LME that is more than a few months old tends to give a bitter tang to the finished beer.

 

[homer383]

LME was not hopped. And yes, it was a bit old. I do not know the date of manufacturing, but I bought it in half of December 2016 and processed in 21.2.2017, so I had it on the shelf for ~2 month. It had sticker with "best before march 2017". I stored it in a room with ambient temp of approx 18 degrees C. They recommend up to 20 on the package.
This might be an issue as I usually brew with freshly bought LME.

And regarding the tap water - I did not get the parameters yet, but the water smells quite much after chlorine. But I thought the chlorine is evaporated during the boil, is not it?

 

[dyqik]

Chlorine can be driven off by boiling the water, but chloramine can't. For both chlorine and chloramine, the water will smell of chlorine. If it noticeably smells of chlorine, then there's a real risk of chlorophenols in the beer.

Even with chlorine, if there's malt extract dissolved or speciality grains steeped in the water before it's boiled, then the chlorine will form chlorophenol precursors rather than (or as well as) being boiled off.

 

[markk308]

Yeah, just to add to this. I've brewed 3 batches so far, all being IPAs. The first 2 had a bitter astringent bite to it and most of the hop characteristics were gone. You described the taste accurately.

I then did some research on my water and my city adds Chloramines in the water. I added a quarter of a camptden tablet to my third batch and wow, that turned my IPA from a C- to an A+! Even when I bottled it, the aroma of the dryhops were so powerful and it tasted like a gorgeous IPA! When I bottled my last 2 batches, this aroma was never present.

So I suggest taking care of your water first, if chloramines do reside in it.

 

[bajaedition]

Hi,
recently I brewed an "IPA" using following ingredients and amounts (I am from EU, so I will convert the units to gal/lb):

Batch size: 6.34 gal
OG: 1.059
FG: 1.014

Ingredients:
11.2lb Pale Ale LME
1.76 oz Premiant (8.46%AA) @ 60min
1.94 oz Centennial (11.2%AA) @ 10min
1.59 oz Centennial (11.2%AA) @ 3 days Dry Hop

The beer is very bitter and the bitterness is not tasty. It is drinkable, but I am disappointed because I made the same beer, but from Pilsen extract some months ago and it was very good. I doubt Pale Ale vs Pilsen would do the change in the bitterness.
Any ideas what could cause the over-bitterness?

because IPAs are suppose to be bitter

 

[Dice_Boken]

why?!
these beers are to be drunk fresh, and while they can be a little green to start with, they're still delicilous.
the longeryou waithe less hoppy they become

He's right. It's better to wait. The breakdown of the hops you are referring to happens after a matter of months, not weeks. It is better to let it bottle condition a bit.

 

[GrimBrewer]

Thats 50grams hops at 60min.
Did you use the same amount on previous boil and was it the same AA level?

 

[crusader1612]

He's right. It's better to wait. The breakdown of the hops you are referring to happens after a matter of months, not weeks. It is better to let it bottle condition a bit.

Thats assuming your transferto keg/bottle minimised oxygen intake etc. if your transfer was less than ideal, you beer will breakdown much faster.

Too hoppy beers I've tried in our HB club have been exactly that. after 4-6 weeks in the keg/bottle, the hops have faded significantly and your left with bitterness and not alot else.